Wheel of Time Messageboard: Re: Rand and Egwene: An artificial conflict? by fionwe1987

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Re: Rand and Egwene: An artificial conflict? fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 05/06/2011 02:08:00 AM

I think it far more likely that in his current state, Rand will manage to convince the world either by words or by ta'veren (or both). Egwene and the AS will probably be left mostly alone to oppose Rand. Either that, or the meeting will be interrupted by something such as the attack on Caemlyn.

That makes no sense. The Aes Sedai are just as susceptible to ta'veren as others. Why would everyone else be so affected as to change their views, but not the Aes Sedai?

Yep. I actually made a post about this once before trying to come up with some reason for why Rand is in such a rush:
http://www.readandfindout.com/wheeloftime/messageboard/172633/

Interesting...

Basically, it makes very little sense for Rand to be so obsessed with breaking the seals right now, when he does not have a plan in place on what to do afterwards. For that matter, even if he DOES have a plan, why break them now? Why not just take the intact seals with him to battle and break them at SG itself, right before he confronts the DO since that would mean that most of the fighting against the trollocs would still take place with the light having the advantage of DO not being able to help in full.

Exactly.

Breaking the seals at Merrilor makes no real sense no matter how you look at it. Either Rand knows something we do not (we only got one very small PoV so this is possible) making it important to break the seals quickly, or he is still insane and acting irrationally (which would be really disappointing after all the struggle about him regaining his sanity) or it is just plain poor writing from BS. I hope there is a good solid explanation.

If he knows of a reason, he will reveal it at Merrilor, and the argument will end quickly anyway. Though I do wonder how he will react to Egwene's Dream.

There is just one book left, if this is all there is to it and Rand is _still_ being a useless moron at THIS point despite having all of LTT's training and experience to draw upon then I think I will be really disappointed. He has apparently regained his sanity so he no longer has the excuse of madness to explain any obviously poor actions.

Which is why I think this is just a result of the book split, and not part of the original plot.

I doubt Egwene has any real understanding of how the seals work at all. And other than one throwaway line, she knows little about Ferid Hels work that has determined that the rubble has to be cleared.

How much can we trust Fel, though. There's no reason to believe he's infallible. He was, after all, killed mysteriously. What if he revised his position, or what if that note was not his after all?

For all she knows, all that will be required is for Rand to be there and throw blood around or something.

I don't think that's true. She does seem to believe the Dragon has to actually do something actively, not just be a pawn whose blood will be useful.

How could Rand/LTT combo fail to understand that THIS is the correct action to take.

Maybe because the conflict is a result of the book split?

Maybe. We know from the one PoV from Rand that we did have that he has every intention of going through with his idea, no matter the opposition.

The Dream may change his mind. The Aes Sedai and Wise Ones will certainly be won over by it. Maybe even Nynaeve and Perrin.

Maybe. Though its not just female channelers in danger at this point, since presumably the seanchan have the male a'dam too and we know it works even better than the female one. Rand needed TP to escape. But given the situation (huge armies of trollocs advancing), it seems odd that everyone would disagree with the idea that humanity needs to unite, if only for the moment, in order to survive.

Yes, but as of now, the males don't have any political power in Merrilor except via Rand, who is all for a truce.

And yes, peace needs to be made with the Seanchan. But it needs to be more than an enforced peace.

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Rand and Egwene: An artificial conflict? fionwe1987 - 04/06/2011 07:21:21 PM 2276 Views

Re: Rand and Egwene: An artificial conflict? sleepinghour - 04/06/2011 10:26:59 PM 1097 Views

Re: Rand and Egwene: An artificial conflict? fionwe1987 - 05/06/2011 01:55:19 AM 809 Views

Re: Rand and Egwene: An artificial conflict? sleepinghour - 05/06/2011 12:42:08 PM 862 Views

Well... fionwe1987 - 05/06/2011 04:55:26 PM 771 Views

Re: Rand and Egwene: An artificial conflict? Datakim - 04/06/2011 11:38:24 PM 1000 Views

Rand and LTT redqueen - 05/06/2011 12:44:54 AM 770 Views

Re: Rand and Egwene: An artificial conflict? fionwe1987 - 05/06/2011 02:08:00 AM 924 Views

Merrilor Voscaia Sedai - 05/06/2011 09:25:43 AM 784 Views

Rand will break the seals with the purpose of... Nargs - 06/06/2011 09:06:43 AM 786 Views

that's more than a little foolish if he doesn't already have a plan to reseal the bore darius_sedai - 06/06/2011 01:08:38 PM 704 Views

Absurd... fionwe1987 - 06/06/2011 03:33:45 PM 726 Views

Re: Rand and Egwene: An artificial conflict? DrJacJacMcScrumptious - 10/06/2011 11:16:20 AM 719 Views

I think so, too. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 10/06/2011 02:45:26 PM 787 Views

Nope... fionwe1987 - 10/06/2011 05:13:55 PM 735 Views

Re: Nope... Underwood - 10/06/2011 07:27:32 PM 668 Views

Re: Nope... DrJacJacMcScrumptious - 11/06/2011 02:15:06 AM 733 Views

I'm referring to what he tells Min... fionwe1987 - 11/06/2011 05:17:53 AM 668 Views

Re: I'm referring to what he tells Min... DrJacJacMcScrumptious - 11/06/2011 11:18:12 AM 800 Views

Also the fact that he is playing Efwene to get leaders all in one place is explicitly stated DrJacJacMcScrumptious - 11/06/2011 11:26:18 AM 776 Views

Re: I'm referring to what he tells Min... fionwe1987 - 11/06/2011 05:34:31 PM 722 Views

Re: I'm referring to what he tells Min... DrJacJacMcScrumptious - 11/06/2011 07:13:22 PM 744 Views

I really like this idea newyorkersedai - 11/06/2011 06:53:34 PM 789 Views

Re: I really like this idea DrJacJacMcScrumptious - 11/06/2011 07:16:58 PM 605 Views

Pretty good reason, actually =) get well soon *NM* newyorkersedai - 11/06/2011 08:35:44 PM 361 Views

Maybe the problem is the imbecile articulating the conflict. Cannoli - 03/07/2011 01:20:57 AM 789 Views

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<quote id="210792">
<quote id="210782">
I think it far more likely that in his current state, Rand will manage to convince the world either by words or by ta'veren (or both). Egwene and the AS will probably be left mostly alone to oppose Rand. Either that, or the meeting will be interrupted by something such as the attack on Caemlyn.</quote>
That makes no sense. The Aes Sedai are just as susceptible to ta'veren as others. Why would everyone else be so affected as to change their views, but not the Aes Sedai?

<quote>
Yep. I actually made a post about this once before trying to come up with some reason for why Rand is in such a rush:
http://www.readandfindout.com/wheeloftime/messageboard/172633/</quote>
Interesting...

<quote>Basically, it makes very little sense for Rand to be so obsessed with breaking the seals right now, when he does not have a plan in place on what to do afterwards. For that matter, even if he DOES have a plan, why break them now? Why not just take the intact seals with him to battle and break them at SG itself, right before he confronts the DO since that would mean that most of the fighting against the trollocs would still take place with the light having the advantage of DO not being able to help in full.</quote>
Exactly.

<quote>Breaking the seals at Merrilor makes no real sense no matter how you look at it. Either Rand knows something we do not (we only got one very small PoV so this is possible) making it important to break the seals quickly, or he is still insane and acting irrationally (which would be really disappointing after all the struggle about him regaining his sanity) or it is just plain poor writing from BS. I hope there is a good solid explanation.</quote>
If he knows of a reason, he will reveal it at Merrilor, and the argument will end quickly anyway. Though I do wonder how he will react to Egwene's Dream.

<quote>
There is just one book left, if this is all there is to it and Rand is _still_ being a useless moron at THIS point despite having all of LTT's training and experience to draw upon then I think I will be really disappointed. He has apparently regained his sanity so he no longer has the excuse of madness to explain any obviously poor actions.</quote>
Which is why I think this is just a result of the book split, and not part of the original plot.

<quote>
I doubt Egwene has any real understanding of how the seals work at all. And other than one throwaway line, she knows little about Ferid Hels work that has determined that the rubble has to be cleared.</quote>
How much can we trust Fel, though. There's no reason to believe he's infallible. He was, after all, killed mysteriously. What if he revised his position, or what if that note was not his after all?

<quote>For all she knows, all that will be required is for Rand to be there and throw blood around or something.</quote>
I don't think that's true. She does seem to believe the Dragon has to actually do something actively, not just be a pawn whose blood will be useful.

<quote>
How could Rand/LTT combo fail to understand that THIS is the correct action to take.</quote>
Maybe because the conflict is a result of the book split?

<quote>
Maybe. We know from the one PoV from Rand that we did have that he has every intention of going through with his idea, no matter the opposition.</quote>
The Dream <i>may</i> change his mind. The Aes Sedai and Wise Ones will certainly be won over by it. Maybe even Nynaeve and Perrin.

<quote>
Maybe. Though its not just female channelers in danger at this point, since presumably the seanchan have the male a'dam too and we know it works even better than the female one. Rand needed TP to escape. But given the situation (huge armies of trollocs advancing), it seems odd that everyone would disagree with the idea that humanity needs to unite, if only for the moment, in order to survive.</quote>
Yes, but as of now, the males don't have any political power in Merrilor except via Rand, who is all for a truce.

And yes, peace needs to be made with the Seanchan. But it needs to be more than an enforced peace.

</quote>

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