Active Users:1098 Time:14/11/2024 06:02:44 AM
Just a general comment... Shannow Send a noteboard - 20/09/2009 09:13:51 PM

I couldn't have said it better myself if I had spent a week trying to capture the difference between our two points of view.

I DO think Demandred is almost a Dragon in terms of his ability - because multiple sources have conveyed this very fact to us. He WAS almost the Dragon. The second greatest man of the Age of Legends. FACT. That accurately depicts my point of view, indeed.

Being somewhat diplomatic, I would not have demonstrated the extent to which you underestimate him quite as drastically as you put it, but since it is in your own words, who am I to argue.

In hindsight, I think you will come to realize the extent of your error in judgment in this regard.


Lol, okay this is a problem and it explains your opinions over the past few days/months/years regarding Demandred. You still consider him to be Barid Bel Medar, his old self, which is totally untrue.

Is Semirhage still the greatest Restorer of the 2nd Age? Is Graendal still considered to be revered for her simple lifestyle? Of course not! They've all gone down an irreversible spiral of evil. I can't believe you don't think this would have affected Demandred.

Demandred is nearly as strong and skilled as Lews Therin in the Power, but as a man, he's not even a fraction, and character makes all the difference. Flaws are the reasons for the Forsaken's fall from grace. Even the Dark One says it for crying out loud. Rahvin... dead in his pride. Sammael who advertised that he was in Ilian. Lanfear who thought that no one could touch her while she was torturing Rand. Semirhage who thought she could leash the Dragon Reborn and five of his allies unaided.

There is an essential theme around the Forsaken i.e. their great natural skill but their waste and perversion of it. Therefore, I think I'm the one who's read Demandred properly. You still think of him as one of Lews Therin's gifted generals. In power he's lost little, but in character he's lost everything. It's thus completely accurate to say that he could be taken down by a thorn in his foot. Perhaps Barid Bel Medar would have died in a blaze of glory, but Demandred will get nothing - just like every other Forsaken. Unless, of course, you think death by mashadar is what a man of Sammael's stature was worth?



I could and do disagree with a number of the individual points you raise in this post, but I think we will be going around in circles if I address each one again. We know where we both stand with respect to this issue.

But I do want to approach this from a broader perspective. When I look at the effort involved in constructing a decent plot, and creating a story with strong, menacing villains and a sense of tension for the reader, then I try to think how best the characters could be used to provide a good climax to the story.

In all honesty, I would find it peculiar if the build up that has gone into Demandred's persona is wasted in the final volume. I confess that the biggest reason for my interest in Demandred is the severe lack of decent villains in this series. Demandred has the sense of mystery, the aura of greatness and the necessary attributes to rescue what is left of the series.

The mad men, pleasure seeking women and other incompetent members of the Forsaken have severely damaged this series. The lack of strong villains is so noticeable that RJ had to come out himself and defend the bad guys with his famous reference to the Light being a boxer that is down and out and left with only a last desperate punch in the final round to try and snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

Frankly, that is not the sense that one gets when confronted with the comical villains in this series. Sure, the PLOT may lead towards the Shadow growing stronger, but the CHARACTERIZATION has not contributed to that in the slightest.

RJ has gone overboard in portraying the Forsaken as flawed and banal. This series NEEDS some kick-ass villainy and my hopes are pinned on Demandred because, frankly, there is no one else left. He is the one remaining Forsaken who has not been openly humiliated, portrayed in a subservient role or as otherwise having failed spectacularly.

And the fact that he was "the second greatest man of the Age of Legends" means that there is decent material to work with if you want to construct a strong villain.

Anyway, that is my overarching point of view, without delving into individual attributes as we have done a million times before - and will no doubt do again as more information is revealed.

This series NEEDS a major act of aggression from Demandred. A major act that achieves a measure of success. Else EVERY villain will have failed without exception. And spectacularly so.

Reply to message
TGS Prologue - your thoughts (part 2) *spoilers* - 16/09/2009 04:55:21 AM 3265 Views
Where can i find it at? Can someone give me a link? *NM* - 18/09/2009 02:21:10 AM 214 Views
mobipocket.com - 18/09/2009 02:53:13 AM 664 Views
Thanks, It was interesting especially the last part of the prologue *NM* - 20/09/2009 02:42:28 AM 265 Views
Yep, to be truthful I really didn't see that coming. *NM* - 20/09/2009 03:03:12 AM 212 Views
A pointless survey - take your guess at who wrote what of the Prologue - 18/09/2009 01:30:24 PM 564 Views
As short as the prologue was - 18/09/2009 04:27:54 PM 573 Views
Re: A pointless survey - take your guess at who wrote what of the Prologue - 18/09/2009 07:08:43 PM 438 Views
How do you think this prologue compares to the previous ones? - 18/09/2009 01:52:59 PM 531 Views
Did only the audiobook ppl get the 2:30 of Harriet at the end? - 18/09/2009 03:07:27 PM 562 Views
nope and now I hate you *NM* - 18/09/2009 04:59:48 PM 306 Views
The interview - 18/09/2009 09:40:23 PM 592 Views
The prologue gives us strong evidence that Graendal is weaker than Demi or Semi - 18/09/2009 03:55:58 PM 642 Views
Well, Lanfear... - 20/09/2009 11:33:22 PM 619 Views
Is it me or do the Forsaken seem more viscious? - 18/09/2009 04:17:22 PM 631 Views
yep, leaner and meaner...except for mesaana-she's still twitchy after shadar haran *NM* - 18/09/2009 05:09:29 PM 316 Views
You blame her? *NM* - 18/09/2009 08:05:46 PM 253 Views
Not at all, I'd be more than "twitchy" if that happened to me - 19/09/2009 12:00:57 AM 515 Views
I get the feeling they want to jump ship - 19/09/2009 02:13:51 PM 586 Views
Trollocs! - 18/09/2009 05:35:12 PM 637 Views
Why not a gray man then? - 18/09/2009 07:52:55 PM 651 Views
I'm going to guess it was Demandred - 18/09/2009 08:12:19 PM 587 Views
What Cache is in Ebou Dar? - 19/09/2009 12:05:05 AM 614 Views
Because they wanted to destroy as much of the force as possible - 19/09/2009 12:07:57 AM 522 Views
But there's no plausible deniability - 19/09/2009 12:50:42 AM 567 Views
But even several grey men or slayer aren't going to get the deed done - 19/09/2009 02:28:36 AM 592 Views
Why? - 19/09/2009 03:25:34 AM 504 Views
simple answer:scouts - 19/09/2009 04:47:04 AM 525 Views
What day is it? Are the Suldam & Damane in the area? - 19/09/2009 05:32:54 PM 476 Views
Who is Graendal going to wack? - 18/09/2009 06:00:12 PM 598 Views
I think it could be Tam. *NM* - 18/09/2009 06:05:12 PM 282 Views
Great idea. - 18/09/2009 07:12:40 PM 556 Views
No one. - 23/09/2009 02:05:06 AM 469 Views
A possibility, but... - 23/09/2009 11:53:07 AM 517 Views
Well, yeah... - 23/09/2009 04:02:47 PM 504 Views
Isn't it obvious...Semirhage sent the Trollocs - 18/09/2009 06:38:15 PM 646 Views
Fades are smart enough though - 18/09/2009 07:54:02 PM 488 Views
Mesaana's statement gives us a big clue about Demandred's and Moridin's whereabouts - 18/09/2009 09:11:49 PM 693 Views
Or - 18/09/2009 10:38:52 PM 668 Views
My first thought was - 19/09/2009 02:20:39 AM 540 Views
My favorite quote: "Who will win? The child or the fool?" - Graendal - 18/09/2009 09:48:55 PM 651 Views
*NM* - 19/09/2009 04:20:29 AM 357 Views
but she didn't say 'the fool or the fool' - 19/09/2009 02:07:20 PM 556 Views
Yes, because Cannoli has long valued the opinions of the Forsaken... - 20/09/2009 06:10:58 AM 616 Views
Lol *NM* - 20/09/2009 08:26:53 AM 485 Views
Forsaken Chapter - 18/09/2009 10:30:10 PM 616 Views
I agree that Graendal will die in this book.... her and A'rangar *NM* - 19/09/2009 08:14:07 AM 259 Views
Re: Forsaken Chapter - 19/09/2009 09:53:31 AM 644 Views
Wrong... - 19/09/2009 01:41:25 PM 672 Views
I think we'll have to agree to disagree. - 19/09/2009 09:22:38 PM 691 Views
Huh - 19/09/2009 01:46:21 PM 752 Views
Re: Huh - 19/09/2009 02:21:43 PM 656 Views
Re: Huh - 19/09/2009 04:32:50 PM 675 Views
Fair enough... - 19/09/2009 05:08:33 PM 597 Views
Re: Forsaken Chapter - 19/09/2009 05:40:14 PM 527 Views
No, see my response to Agent Orange above. *NM* - 19/09/2009 06:07:14 PM 231 Views
Remove your blinders man... - 19/09/2009 07:16:03 PM 665 Views
After third reread - 18/09/2009 10:58:12 PM 595 Views
Ituralde's plan - 19/09/2009 02:04:58 PM 505 Views
Huh....hadn't thought about that - 19/09/2009 03:07:06 PM 612 Views
This makes perfect sense - 22/09/2009 07:35:49 PM 515 Views
Various comments - 19/09/2009 05:38:21 PM 636 Views
The Dying Man - 19/09/2009 06:48:09 PM 578 Views
Yeah, I thought it was Dobraine as well - 19/09/2009 08:30:13 PM 593 Views
Dobraine seems unlikely... - 20/09/2009 11:30:45 AM 485 Views
Symbolism - 20/09/2009 04:10:53 PM 462 Views
After a reread I think I know who sent the Trollocs - 19/09/2009 08:28:08 PM 544 Views
That is a really stupid idea - 20/09/2009 01:20:09 AM 507 Views
Yeah - 20/09/2009 08:24:18 AM 505 Views
Another reason why Moridin is not Taim - 19/09/2009 08:41:03 PM 527 Views
This isn't evidence. - 19/09/2009 08:51:54 PM 638 Views
It isn't evidence, but it is another perspective to add to the table - 19/09/2009 09:11:15 PM 436 Views
Personally, I disagree. - 20/09/2009 03:22:24 AM 536 Views
Do you think Moridin is struggling like Rand is? - 19/09/2009 10:24:45 PM 452 Views
Re: Do you think Moridin is struggling like Rand is? - 19/09/2009 11:29:36 PM 525 Views
Why is Moridin and not Demandred marshalling the Dark Forces in the Blight? - 19/09/2009 10:35:06 PM 523 Views
I think there are many issues here - 19/09/2009 10:51:13 PM 632 Views
The Malign Influence of the Forsaken - 19/09/2009 11:08:00 PM 544 Views
I have doubts about that degree of conversion - 19/09/2009 11:17:44 PM 481 Views
Its a stretch, but... - 19/09/2009 11:34:28 PM 435 Views
I thought about that - 20/09/2009 08:26:02 AM 478 Views
Levee en Masse - 19/09/2009 10:51:54 PM 549 Views
I think Demendred might take over though - 20/09/2009 05:10:08 PM 437 Views
Did Demandred make the connection between Moridin's phantom hand-pain and Semirhage's firebolt? - 20/09/2009 12:11:32 PM 629 Views
I don't think that Demandred will be a key player at the end with Rand - 20/09/2009 01:00:58 PM 586 Views
Some sweeping statements there... - 20/09/2009 01:21:46 PM 577 Views
Not at all - 20/09/2009 03:34:59 PM 602 Views
A lot of twisting my words there, and direct contradictions of your own points... - 20/09/2009 04:19:57 PM 605 Views
Not really - 20/09/2009 05:12:42 PM 671 Views
I couldn't have summarized it better myself... - 20/09/2009 05:25:56 PM 496 Views
But... - 20/09/2009 06:01:33 PM 596 Views
Possible... - 20/09/2009 06:08:21 PM 508 Views
So that's your argument now? - 20/09/2009 07:35:52 PM 429 Views
I think you took that the wrong way... - 20/09/2009 08:53:28 PM 514 Views
Its simply, really. - 20/09/2009 09:05:42 PM 526 Views
Hmmm... - 20/09/2009 11:10:04 PM 555 Views
Fair enough... - 20/09/2009 11:12:53 PM 424 Views
Sure. *NM* - 20/09/2009 11:25:50 PM 254 Views
Wow, then I think you're in for a surprise - 20/09/2009 08:38:37 PM 490 Views
Well - 20/09/2009 08:56:43 PM 566 Views
Re: Well - 20/09/2009 09:40:51 PM 648 Views
Re: Wow, then I think you're in for a surprise - 20/09/2009 09:07:48 PM 481 Views
Just a general comment... - 20/09/2009 09:13:51 PM 646 Views
Re: Just a general comment... - 20/09/2009 09:59:51 PM 1455 Views
Re: Just a general comment... - 20/09/2009 10:19:14 PM 458 Views
Re: Just a general comment... - 21/09/2009 04:58:38 AM 413 Views
I reject the cult of the "cool" villain. - 20/09/2009 11:24:40 PM 531 Views
I don't really agree - 21/09/2009 05:02:10 AM 481 Views
But these aren't criminals... - 21/09/2009 05:47:40 AM 412 Views
No, just the most heinous criminals imaginable - 21/09/2009 12:43:19 PM 621 Views
Re: No, just the most heinous criminals imaginable - 22/09/2009 10:49:58 PM 543 Views
Doubt it... - 20/09/2009 02:10:37 PM 594 Views
I tend to agree with you, this time. - 20/09/2009 05:05:35 PM 482 Views

Reply to Message