Poontang – the Final Indignity
When all is said and done, when Gawyn has been used and abused so mercilessly by the object of his affection, and in spite of all of this, defended her from assassins regarding whose existence she herself dismissed his reports, nearly at the cost of his own life, she finally fulfills her promise and bonds him as a Warder and agrees to marry him. Yet, Egwene being Egwene, she still continues to set the tone for their relationship by finding one last way to screw him over (strictly figuratively speaking, which is the problem, if you know what I mean). She refuses to have sex with him (though by this point she might very well be the first woman in the entire series to do this under any circumstances) until they go through some meaningless farce of a wedding ceremony! Now as a general principle in real life, I do not personally disapprove of premarital abstinence in the least. On the other hand, Egwene and Gawyn don’t live in the real world, they live in the world of tWoT, where I cannot punch them. None of the reasons for premarital chastity apply to their circumstances. There is no religion, so that aspect does not apply to them. Regarding their customs, not only does the Two Rivers accept premarital sex (though it appears to be their own obscure revenge for the Breaking or something in that they don’t tell the men it’s okay), but Egwene has repeatedly and explicitly disavowed her obligations to Two Rivers practices, starting with the first book in the series, and even expressing her rationalizing for ignoring the particular practice as it applies to this specific case! As far as her prospective husband’s customs and traditions, there is no word one way or another on Andoran sexual mores, but judging by his female relatives, the specific practice of his family seems to be Trakands put out! Elayne’s holding out until the fourth date would appear to be more a result of her own personal inhibitions and innocence, than any real opposition to premarital relations, and Thom seems to have set her straight on that account as well, when they discuss her mother’s habits in tSR. So customs and practices of their homelands don’t apply, and certainly the Tower has no such restrictions. The only viable reason for withholding what some might argue would be his due, after defending her singlehandedly from the Bloodknives, would be the necessity for a commitment to a long-term relationship. Would Egwene (or her apologists in our community) REALLY try to make the ridiculous assertion that words spoke in the presence of a village pharmacist are more binding and more properly affirming lifetime commitment than a Warder bond? Real world religious scripture speaks of a man and woman becoming one flesh, but what is that compared to a bond that lets them feel one another’s emotions and physical sensations! Egwene is committed, she’s in the clear morally, and is by her own reckoning unbound by any tradition or social expectations. There is absolutely no reason to make Gawyn sleep in a separate bed, except her own contrary and malicious nature. And people expect me to trust in her friendship with Rand to induce her cooperation for Tarmon Gaidon?
When all is said and done, when Gawyn has been used and abused so mercilessly by the object of his affection, and in spite of all of this, defended her from assassins regarding whose existence she herself dismissed his reports, nearly at the cost of his own life, she finally fulfills her promise and bonds him as a Warder and agrees to marry him. Yet, Egwene being Egwene, she still continues to set the tone for their relationship by finding one last way to screw him over (strictly figuratively speaking, which is the problem, if you know what I mean). She refuses to have sex with him (though by this point she might very well be the first woman in the entire series to do this under any circumstances) until they go through some meaningless farce of a wedding ceremony! Now as a general principle in real life, I do not personally disapprove of premarital abstinence in the least. On the other hand, Egwene and Gawyn don’t live in the real world, they live in the world of tWoT, where I cannot punch them. None of the reasons for premarital chastity apply to their circumstances. There is no religion, so that aspect does not apply to them. Regarding their customs, not only does the Two Rivers accept premarital sex (though it appears to be their own obscure revenge for the Breaking or something in that they don’t tell the men it’s okay), but Egwene has repeatedly and explicitly disavowed her obligations to Two Rivers practices, starting with the first book in the series, and even expressing her rationalizing for ignoring the particular practice as it applies to this specific case! As far as her prospective husband’s customs and traditions, there is no word one way or another on Andoran sexual mores, but judging by his female relatives, the specific practice of his family seems to be Trakands put out! Elayne’s holding out until the fourth date would appear to be more a result of her own personal inhibitions and innocence, than any real opposition to premarital relations, and Thom seems to have set her straight on that account as well, when they discuss her mother’s habits in tSR. So customs and practices of their homelands don’t apply, and certainly the Tower has no such restrictions. The only viable reason for withholding what some might argue would be his due, after defending her singlehandedly from the Bloodknives, would be the necessity for a commitment to a long-term relationship. Would Egwene (or her apologists in our community) REALLY try to make the ridiculous assertion that words spoke in the presence of a village pharmacist are more binding and more properly affirming lifetime commitment than a Warder bond? Real world religious scripture speaks of a man and woman becoming one flesh, but what is that compared to a bond that lets them feel one another’s emotions and physical sensations! Egwene is committed, she’s in the clear morally, and is by her own reckoning unbound by any tradition or social expectations. There is absolutely no reason to make Gawyn sleep in a separate bed, except her own contrary and malicious nature. And people expect me to trust in her friendship with Rand to induce her cooperation for Tarmon Gaidon?
this I disagree with, you really want those two idiots breeding? could you imagine what the kids would be like? perhaps that's why Eggers is a cock-block, she's Dreamed about the abominations she'd unleash on the world if Gawyn got his end away and put a kibosh on it.
*MySmiley*
The best things in life are weird:
https://www.youtube.com/user/Paigeofmaces
“Brave Hobo, defend me as I flee!”
I have the face of a philosopher-king
The best things in life are weird:
https://www.youtube.com/user/Paigeofmaces
“Brave Hobo, defend me as I flee!”
I have the face of a philosopher-king
Egwene vs. Gawyn (ToM spoilers of course)
28/04/2011 05:01:46 AM
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There's fifty feet of crap between rock bottom and your post... *NM*
28/04/2011 07:40:04 AM
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Almost three days since the last post...at least I'm trying.
28/04/2011 12:17:59 PM
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What is to discuss here? You hate Egwene and will spin anything to put her in a negative light
28/04/2011 12:59:58 PM
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But he's so good at it. all the pieces are in there and close to the right place... like a picasso.
03/05/2011 12:51:54 AM
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I'd say there's no need to take it so seriously when there's so few posts lately. You should see
28/04/2011 05:59:19 PM
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while i agree with you on most of this
28/04/2011 04:53:06 PM
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hmpf, i post a good point and nothing
28/04/2011 11:09:53 PM
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you could say the same about a lot of the relationships in this series
28/04/2011 04:59:19 PM
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I agree there are plenty of underdeveloped and somewhat one-sided relationships in the series
28/04/2011 08:15:52 PM
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Re: I agree there are plenty of underdeveloped and somewhat one-sided relationships in the series
29/04/2011 06:55:14 PM
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In regards to the letters...
28/04/2011 05:28:13 PM
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But Gawyn was not Egwene's subject
28/04/2011 06:09:31 PM
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Which was why I thought it was appropriate, since he meant to act as Egwene's Warder.
28/04/2011 06:19:53 PM
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The only issue is that Warders are not minions - they are honored junior partners.
28/04/2011 07:39:18 PM
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No, the junior partners are Accepted. Warders are essentially personal bodyguards and/or assistants.
28/04/2011 08:00:17 PM
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Accepted are not anything, let alone junior partners. Don't think N&E's experience was typical
28/04/2011 09:32:22 PM
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Here's the thing though...
28/04/2011 11:20:32 PM
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No, but it's cute and quirky when Faile does it.
29/04/2011 03:06:50 PM
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But...
29/04/2011 10:52:03 PM
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That's not really clear
29/04/2011 11:41:20 PM
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Actually, it is...
30/04/2011 06:37:42 PM
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Re: Actually, it is...
30/04/2011 11:17:21 PM
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Didn't Siuan, Gareth and Gawyn tell her about the Bloodknife they encountered?
02/05/2011 02:33:08 PM
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Re: Accepted are not anything, let alone junior partners. Don't think N&E's experience was typical
28/04/2011 11:36:24 PM
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My two cents: yes, a little, maybe, and possibly not.
28/04/2011 06:05:09 PM
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Regarding your reference to another Emond's Fielder: What are you talking about?
28/04/2011 09:06:13 PM
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both together, couldn't separate them in my mind - perrin's evasiveness or nyn's trickiness *NM*
28/04/2011 10:16:57 PM
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It isn't the worst romance in WoT
28/04/2011 08:10:23 PM
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Galad is a great option for a political marriage
28/04/2011 09:04:46 PM
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Yes, but...
28/04/2011 09:40:39 PM
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but galad knew nothing of berelain's closeness to rand, so that couldn't have affected anything
28/04/2011 10:12:23 PM
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Yes. An often overlooked point is that ELAYNE, not Egwene, gains the most power in ToM
28/04/2011 09:42:43 PM
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Except they're both really hot.
28/04/2011 10:01:46 PM
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I can only quibble; Egwene became so insufferable in ToM I'm convinced her fate will be unpleasant.
04/05/2011 12:41:53 AM
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Siuan...
04/05/2011 05:42:59 AM
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Re: Siuan screwed up big time.
07/05/2011 03:35:46 AM
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Good points all round (do you switch brains when getting into real world politics? ) & re: the Talk
12/05/2011 02:04:06 PM
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Thanks, (and no, you just become less and less astute as we move farther from fiction. )
15/05/2011 11:46:41 PM
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