Active Users:1120 Time:14/11/2024 06:13:19 AM
I don't think that Demandred will be a key player at the end with Rand Sidious Send a noteboard - 20/09/2009 01:00:58 PM
Demandred has been shown to be extremely observant. He noted Graendal's overreaction to the Choeden Kal revelation in Winter's Heart, and based on that made the connection that it was in fact no surprise to her.

He also noticed the plain gold ring on her little finger, and based on the fact that it was not consistent with the flashy nature of her other jewelry, made the connection that it was likely an angreal or other threat of some kind.

He also reasoned out Rand's plan at Shadar Logoth as soon as he became aware of the location at which the Choeden Kal were being used. None of the others displayed such a level of understanding at the time.

Graendal noted Moridin's flexing hand when he spoke of Semirhage, but did not grasp its deeper significance. If she noticed it, Demandred assuredly noticed it as well.

Additionally, Demandred knows exactly what took place when Semirhage was captured, down to the bolt of fire described by Mesaana, and no doubt he knows about Rand's loss of a hand as a result.

So the question is: Did Demandred connect Moridin's phantom pain to Rand's loss of a hand? Did he understand this to be the basis for Moridin's anger with Semirhage?

And if he made the connection - can he use this to his advantage? Perhaps he is now thinking along the lines of killing two birds with one stone when he destroys Rand?

For the record, I think Demandred WILL kill Rand. His single minded obsession in this regard has been built up too much for anything other than such a confrontation to take place.

Might this cost the Shadow its victory, when Moridin dies along with Rand, only for Rand to somehow survive by being transposed/transmogrified/translocated to a new body, as has been hinted at before?

We know Moridin won't kill Rand, because then he will die along with him. Alivia also needs to be involved somehow, but the anti-climax would be extreme if Demandred is not part of the equation during this pivotal event. It is the single most important reason he is even in the series. To kill Lews Therin, somehow.


Demandred is going to lead a large army, and fight in the Final Battle as a general, but he's probably going to die by someone else's hand - my own personal opinion is it will either be Mat who kills him, or Logain. Demandred's theme is treachery to achieve greatness, and RJ will deny him that. There's almost no chance that Demandred will rise above his personality flaw and his inability to beat Lews Therin. RJ never rewards the Forsaken.

I think the stage has been adequately set up for Moridin and Rand to meet and fight. The Final Battle is about the two champions of the Light and Shadow meeting - there's really no place for the other Forsaken.

Even if Demandred did meet Rand, he'd be annihilated. Rand is the most powerful and dangerous man in the world. He can't be defeated. Even Moridin is going to lose to him.
Wheel of Time board admin
Fan of Lanfear
Reply to message
TGS Prologue - your thoughts (part 2) *spoilers* - 16/09/2009 04:55:21 AM 3266 Views
Where can i find it at? Can someone give me a link? *NM* - 18/09/2009 02:21:10 AM 214 Views
mobipocket.com - 18/09/2009 02:53:13 AM 665 Views
Thanks, It was interesting especially the last part of the prologue *NM* - 20/09/2009 02:42:28 AM 265 Views
Yep, to be truthful I really didn't see that coming. *NM* - 20/09/2009 03:03:12 AM 212 Views
A pointless survey - take your guess at who wrote what of the Prologue - 18/09/2009 01:30:24 PM 566 Views
As short as the prologue was - 18/09/2009 04:27:54 PM 574 Views
Re: A pointless survey - take your guess at who wrote what of the Prologue - 18/09/2009 07:08:43 PM 440 Views
How do you think this prologue compares to the previous ones? - 18/09/2009 01:52:59 PM 531 Views
Did only the audiobook ppl get the 2:30 of Harriet at the end? - 18/09/2009 03:07:27 PM 563 Views
nope and now I hate you *NM* - 18/09/2009 04:59:48 PM 306 Views
The interview - 18/09/2009 09:40:23 PM 593 Views
The prologue gives us strong evidence that Graendal is weaker than Demi or Semi - 18/09/2009 03:55:58 PM 643 Views
Well, Lanfear... - 20/09/2009 11:33:22 PM 619 Views
Is it me or do the Forsaken seem more viscious? - 18/09/2009 04:17:22 PM 632 Views
yep, leaner and meaner...except for mesaana-she's still twitchy after shadar haran *NM* - 18/09/2009 05:09:29 PM 316 Views
You blame her? *NM* - 18/09/2009 08:05:46 PM 253 Views
Not at all, I'd be more than "twitchy" if that happened to me - 19/09/2009 12:00:57 AM 516 Views
I get the feeling they want to jump ship - 19/09/2009 02:13:51 PM 587 Views
Trollocs! - 18/09/2009 05:35:12 PM 638 Views
Why not a gray man then? - 18/09/2009 07:52:55 PM 652 Views
I'm going to guess it was Demandred - 18/09/2009 08:12:19 PM 588 Views
What Cache is in Ebou Dar? - 19/09/2009 12:05:05 AM 616 Views
Because they wanted to destroy as much of the force as possible - 19/09/2009 12:07:57 AM 522 Views
But there's no plausible deniability - 19/09/2009 12:50:42 AM 569 Views
But even several grey men or slayer aren't going to get the deed done - 19/09/2009 02:28:36 AM 592 Views
Why? - 19/09/2009 03:25:34 AM 505 Views
simple answer:scouts - 19/09/2009 04:47:04 AM 527 Views
What day is it? Are the Suldam & Damane in the area? - 19/09/2009 05:32:54 PM 477 Views
Who is Graendal going to wack? - 18/09/2009 06:00:12 PM 598 Views
I think it could be Tam. *NM* - 18/09/2009 06:05:12 PM 282 Views
Great idea. - 18/09/2009 07:12:40 PM 556 Views
No one. - 23/09/2009 02:05:06 AM 469 Views
A possibility, but... - 23/09/2009 11:53:07 AM 518 Views
Well, yeah... - 23/09/2009 04:02:47 PM 505 Views
Isn't it obvious...Semirhage sent the Trollocs - 18/09/2009 06:38:15 PM 647 Views
Fades are smart enough though - 18/09/2009 07:54:02 PM 489 Views
Mesaana's statement gives us a big clue about Demandred's and Moridin's whereabouts - 18/09/2009 09:11:49 PM 693 Views
Or - 18/09/2009 10:38:52 PM 669 Views
My first thought was - 19/09/2009 02:20:39 AM 540 Views
My favorite quote: "Who will win? The child or the fool?" - Graendal - 18/09/2009 09:48:55 PM 652 Views
*NM* - 19/09/2009 04:20:29 AM 357 Views
but she didn't say 'the fool or the fool' - 19/09/2009 02:07:20 PM 557 Views
Yes, because Cannoli has long valued the opinions of the Forsaken... - 20/09/2009 06:10:58 AM 617 Views
Lol *NM* - 20/09/2009 08:26:53 AM 485 Views
Forsaken Chapter - 18/09/2009 10:30:10 PM 617 Views
I agree that Graendal will die in this book.... her and A'rangar *NM* - 19/09/2009 08:14:07 AM 259 Views
Re: Forsaken Chapter - 19/09/2009 09:53:31 AM 645 Views
Wrong... - 19/09/2009 01:41:25 PM 673 Views
I think we'll have to agree to disagree. - 19/09/2009 09:22:38 PM 692 Views
Huh - 19/09/2009 01:46:21 PM 753 Views
Re: Huh - 19/09/2009 02:21:43 PM 656 Views
Re: Huh - 19/09/2009 04:32:50 PM 675 Views
Fair enough... - 19/09/2009 05:08:33 PM 598 Views
Re: Forsaken Chapter - 19/09/2009 05:40:14 PM 527 Views
No, see my response to Agent Orange above. *NM* - 19/09/2009 06:07:14 PM 231 Views
Remove your blinders man... - 19/09/2009 07:16:03 PM 665 Views
After third reread - 18/09/2009 10:58:12 PM 595 Views
Ituralde's plan - 19/09/2009 02:04:58 PM 507 Views
Huh....hadn't thought about that - 19/09/2009 03:07:06 PM 613 Views
This makes perfect sense - 22/09/2009 07:35:49 PM 516 Views
Various comments - 19/09/2009 05:38:21 PM 637 Views
The Dying Man - 19/09/2009 06:48:09 PM 579 Views
Yeah, I thought it was Dobraine as well - 19/09/2009 08:30:13 PM 594 Views
Dobraine seems unlikely... - 20/09/2009 11:30:45 AM 485 Views
Symbolism - 20/09/2009 04:10:53 PM 462 Views
After a reread I think I know who sent the Trollocs - 19/09/2009 08:28:08 PM 545 Views
That is a really stupid idea - 20/09/2009 01:20:09 AM 508 Views
Yeah - 20/09/2009 08:24:18 AM 506 Views
Another reason why Moridin is not Taim - 19/09/2009 08:41:03 PM 527 Views
This isn't evidence. - 19/09/2009 08:51:54 PM 640 Views
It isn't evidence, but it is another perspective to add to the table - 19/09/2009 09:11:15 PM 437 Views
Personally, I disagree. - 20/09/2009 03:22:24 AM 538 Views
Do you think Moridin is struggling like Rand is? - 19/09/2009 10:24:45 PM 452 Views
Re: Do you think Moridin is struggling like Rand is? - 19/09/2009 11:29:36 PM 527 Views
Why is Moridin and not Demandred marshalling the Dark Forces in the Blight? - 19/09/2009 10:35:06 PM 523 Views
I think there are many issues here - 19/09/2009 10:51:13 PM 633 Views
The Malign Influence of the Forsaken - 19/09/2009 11:08:00 PM 545 Views
I have doubts about that degree of conversion - 19/09/2009 11:17:44 PM 481 Views
Its a stretch, but... - 19/09/2009 11:34:28 PM 436 Views
I thought about that - 20/09/2009 08:26:02 AM 478 Views
Levee en Masse - 19/09/2009 10:51:54 PM 550 Views
I think Demendred might take over though - 20/09/2009 05:10:08 PM 437 Views
Did Demandred make the connection between Moridin's phantom hand-pain and Semirhage's firebolt? - 20/09/2009 12:11:32 PM 629 Views
I don't think that Demandred will be a key player at the end with Rand - 20/09/2009 01:00:58 PM 588 Views
Some sweeping statements there... - 20/09/2009 01:21:46 PM 579 Views
Not at all - 20/09/2009 03:34:59 PM 602 Views
A lot of twisting my words there, and direct contradictions of your own points... - 20/09/2009 04:19:57 PM 605 Views
Not really - 20/09/2009 05:12:42 PM 673 Views
I couldn't have summarized it better myself... - 20/09/2009 05:25:56 PM 497 Views
But... - 20/09/2009 06:01:33 PM 596 Views
Possible... - 20/09/2009 06:08:21 PM 509 Views
So that's your argument now? - 20/09/2009 07:35:52 PM 429 Views
I think you took that the wrong way... - 20/09/2009 08:53:28 PM 515 Views
Its simply, really. - 20/09/2009 09:05:42 PM 527 Views
Hmmm... - 20/09/2009 11:10:04 PM 555 Views
Fair enough... - 20/09/2009 11:12:53 PM 425 Views
Sure. *NM* - 20/09/2009 11:25:50 PM 254 Views
Wow, then I think you're in for a surprise - 20/09/2009 08:38:37 PM 492 Views
Well - 20/09/2009 08:56:43 PM 568 Views
Re: Well - 20/09/2009 09:40:51 PM 648 Views
Re: Wow, then I think you're in for a surprise - 20/09/2009 09:07:48 PM 482 Views
Just a general comment... - 20/09/2009 09:13:51 PM 646 Views
Re: Just a general comment... - 20/09/2009 09:59:51 PM 1456 Views
Re: Just a general comment... - 20/09/2009 10:19:14 PM 459 Views
Re: Just a general comment... - 21/09/2009 04:58:38 AM 413 Views
I reject the cult of the "cool" villain. - 20/09/2009 11:24:40 PM 532 Views
I don't really agree - 21/09/2009 05:02:10 AM 482 Views
But these aren't criminals... - 21/09/2009 05:47:40 AM 412 Views
No, just the most heinous criminals imaginable - 21/09/2009 12:43:19 PM 621 Views
Re: No, just the most heinous criminals imaginable - 22/09/2009 10:49:58 PM 543 Views
Doubt it... - 20/09/2009 02:10:37 PM 595 Views
I tend to agree with you, this time. - 20/09/2009 05:05:35 PM 482 Views

Reply to Message