No, like subverting Arad Doman. Demandred didn't even think about the skills of the other Forsaken when we had his PoV. It doesn't mean that he doesn't have a rough idea. Graendal is merely toying with the idea - it's a stream of thought as to whether Demandred or Semirhage is more dangerous. What is more dangerous... cyanide or dynamite? Graendal isn't a fool because she doesn't sit around all day thinking about that sort of concept. Asmodean could tell Rand very little about the other Forsaken, a fact that irritated Rand a lot.



Graendal kills people - she's a mass murderer. Anyone who looks over that really is a fool. As another poster says, if Aran'gar went up to Demandred to fondle him or woo him, he's balefire or kill her immediately. Graendal is more interested in bringing Aran'gar into some elaborate plot and using her to get what she can, and then either killing her or making her a slave. Aran'gar also tried her tricks with Cyndane and she said she'd rip her head off - which is the response I'd expect from Demandred too.

Besides, you're trying to make it all black and white, and it isn't. Graendal thinks that Semirhage or Demandred are both relatively equal as opponents, which is what the majority of powerful channelers think. It's like you want her to say that she'd much rather face Semirhage than Demandred. But she wouldn't rather do that - she would find that either contest would be the duel of her life. If you want to talk negative quoting, then show me where the Forsaken think of Semirhage as anything other than the most fearsome of opponents.

You're clearly of the opinion that Demandred can overwhelm any of the Forsaken if he wants to, but clearly he can't. The Shadow actively encouraged the murder of the competition and he couldn't rid himself of Graendal, Semirhage, Sammael or the others. He's still obviously not willing to try - it's too much of a risk and he knows there's a chance he could lose.



I rely on Robert Jordan as the base of my opinion - and he showed who the deadlist six Forsaken were, who were the most adept overall. This is why Moridin wonders who would win if Sammael and Graendal dueled. This is why Rahvin is uneasy when Graendal and Lanfear want to go for one another, or why Sammael sends a warning to Demandred. They're all pretty much on a par. The fact that Graendal debates it means that she's not certain of it herself. Mesaana might well be as strong as Semirhage in the Power, but seriously, who cares. As Graendal says, she never did anything great in the War of Power.



Oh I agree that Sammael got the better of her, but only because he used the ultimate lie which no one would dare use - that he'd become Nae'blis. When Moridin heard it, he gasped and wondered if it was true, and said that 'even Graendal' would fall for that, meaning that she has the most resilient of minds.



He did fool her completely. It wasn't a clumsy ruse though, it was extremely brave on Sammael's part. If it had been discovered that he claimed to be Nae'blis and it was a lie, he would have been killed. As it is, Moridin did discover, and Sammael just happened to die soon thereafter by Rand's hand.



It's open knowledge, but Graendal thinks it's a secret. How very plausible for someone of her stature. It must really make sense that RJ actually intended for Graendal of all people to turn out to be an imbecile.



That is your interpretation of the situation, which is completely NOT hinted at by Moridin at any stage. Moridin's greatest competitor is not Demandred, it's Rand. All of the Forsaken are plotting to become Nae'blis at some stage, but only a few have the capabilities.



Moridin doesn't want the loss of more Chosen, which makes him unique. He actually wants them to work together to win the War against Rand. What should Graendal do... refuse to obey the Nae'blis? Planning to kill Rand is actually the point of being a Forsaken, you know.



No one denies that Demandred is one of the most powerful of the Forsaken, but the other Chosen do not revere or respect him. They all want to kill him, but recognize that he is dangerous. You cannot claim that Graendal only threatens people when she has an angreal, when in fact she got into an open altercation with Lanfear before she got the angreal, and with Sammael too. Insults are sparse around Semirhage too, but it's mad to use it as evidence of anything.

Demandred's complacency is not a testament to his greatness, it's a testament to his flaws. Even Rand holds on to saidin around his enemies - Sammael, Rahvin, Lanfear, all of them ready against one another and filled with the Power. This is why Demandred almost gets flattened by people like Flinn and co - because he can't believe that anyone would ever challenge him openly. You cannot therefore use 'I would hunt Semirhage and kill her' as evidence of his power. Do you think Semirhage is thinking 'I hope Demandred never comes for me' or 'I'll kill Demandred if he comes for me'. The latter, of course. All the greater Forsaken think that they are supremely competent. Demandred has been planning to kill Lews Therin for 3,000 years, but he didn't risk it like Ishamael did, and so the threat hangs there and looms impotently.



That is not the issue I raised. Lews Therin thinks that Semirhage is a channeler of surpassing power, but that she has a reputation as a torturer which overshadows that. Therefore Lews Therin and Graendal hold similar opinions on Semirhage.

Even so, Mesaana said that Demandred wouldn't go after Rand without a sa'angreal. With several Forsaken dead at Rand's feet, Demandred knows how dangerous al'Thor is.



Sammael was more aggressive than him as a general. Sammael said he'd kill Lanfear next time he saw her. He never saw her again. Do you doubt that he would have tried?



I find this unlikely. Moridin sent her off to destroy Rand emotionally. This is not some red herring. He's going to weep when she's finished with him.


I don't think so, but I hope he is for you - you've been waiting for years for him to show himself.