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Re: Forsaken Chapter AgentOrange Send a noteboard - 19/09/2009 09:53:31 AM
I found the Forsaken chapter somewhat disappointing. It was clearly the work of someone who had all the superficial information about each Forsaken, but was trying to summarize their personalities all over again as if presenting it for the first time.


It's strange that you figured this out, yet attribute some of Brandon's 'shortcomings' to the character itself.



What is clear to me now is that the female Forsaken are even more gender-biased than the males when it comes to assessing the strengths of fellow Chosen. Everyone was criticising Rahvin for underestimating Lanfear in FoH, but Graendal seems to naturally consider the female Semirhage to be a foe as dangerous as Demandred. This despite her acknowledging that Demandred might have been the Dragon HIMSELF had he stayed with the Light!


you should reread that. She doesn't think he might have been the Dragon himself. She says that HE thinks he might have been. It's also implied she thinks he's deluding himself.

That simply does not make sense. It is clear that Demandred is the leader of the trio. And it is also clear that Graendal is not half as cunning and intelligent as everyone has been making out up to now.


I don't agree with either statement. There's isn't really a leader to the trio and there's nothing clear about it.

For one, it has NEVER before been suggested that Demandred sought to keep his alliance with Mesaana and Semirhage secret from the other Forsaken. For pete's sake, they've openly huddled together AT FORSAKEN MEETINGS in previous books. Arangar knew about their alliance in Book 11, yet she did not consider it to be any kind of achievement to have this insight. It is open knowledge. Yet Graendal thinks herself smart for "cracking that secret." I mean, come on.


This is Brandon's mistake. Quite obviously.

What has come across yet again, however, is just how dangerous Demandred is. In EVERY appearance thus far, throughout the series, he has only been regarded with respect or awe by other Forsaken. We have had references to his ability and menace from almost all the Forsaken by now.


I'm not sure I agree. One interesting part was when Demandred goes into a "Only I get to kill Lews Therin" fit, and Moridin kind of shrugs him off as a useful hound. "Yeah sure sure whatever. You'll do it". Later when Moridin is left with Graendal he remarks thar Al'Thor musn't be hurt till he faces Morirind on the last day. Clearly he isn't taking Demandred too seriously. I wonder if it might turn out to Rand's advantage at that final moment.

More revealing than Graendal's opionion, however, was Arangar's comparative view of Graendal and Demandred. The common thread between Arangar and Graendal's views was their high estimates for Demandred's ability. The difference, is that Arangar considered Graendal a far less dangerous adversary to try and manipulate. If I recall, her words were something to the effect that Demandred was far too dangerous to play her games with.


Yes, but that's because he might try to kill you. Graendal would rather entangle you in her plots. And she has more sense of humor to flirting/ploting.

This message last edited by AgentOrange on 19/09/2009 at 09:54:05 AM
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TGS Prologue - your thoughts (part 2) *spoilers* Sidious - 16/09/2009 04:55:21 AM 3265 Views
Where can i find it at? Can someone give me a link? *NM* Blaine - 18/09/2009 02:21:10 AM 214 Views
mobipocket.com NaClH2O - 18/09/2009 02:53:13 AM 664 Views
Thanks, It was interesting especially the last part of the prologue *NM* Blaine - 20/09/2009 02:42:28 AM 265 Views
Yep, to be truthful I really didn't see that coming. *NM* NaClH2O - 20/09/2009 03:03:12 AM 212 Views
A pointless survey - take your guess at who wrote what of the Prologue ajfurst - 18/09/2009 01:30:24 PM 564 Views
As short as the prologue was Ryan - 18/09/2009 04:27:54 PM 573 Views
Re: A pointless survey - take your guess at who wrote what of the Prologue Seriana Sedai - 18/09/2009 07:08:43 PM 439 Views
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Did only the audiobook ppl get the 2:30 of Harriet at the end? Lanfear - 18/09/2009 03:07:27 PM 562 Views
nope and now I hate you *NM* NaClH2O - 18/09/2009 04:59:48 PM 306 Views
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The prologue gives us strong evidence that Graendal is weaker than Demi or Semi Lanfear - 18/09/2009 03:55:58 PM 642 Views
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simple answer:scouts redhand - 19/09/2009 04:47:04 AM 525 Views
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I think it could be Tam. *NM* MikeyMikeyMikey - 18/09/2009 06:05:12 PM 282 Views
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Or PatAtt - 18/09/2009 10:38:52 PM 668 Views
My first thought was Great Lord of Chaos - 19/09/2009 02:20:39 AM 540 Views
My favorite quote: "Who will win? The child or the fool?" - Graendal BlackAdder - 18/09/2009 09:48:55 PM 651 Views
*NM* AliasRY - 19/09/2009 04:20:29 AM 357 Views
but she didn't say 'the fool or the fool' Sidious - 19/09/2009 02:07:20 PM 556 Views
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Lol *NM* Sidious - 20/09/2009 08:26:53 AM 485 Views
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I agree that Graendal will die in this book.... her and A'rangar *NM* Matrimony Cauthon - 19/09/2009 08:14:07 AM 259 Views
Re: Forsaken Chapter AgentOrange - 19/09/2009 09:53:31 AM 645 Views
Wrong... Shannow - 19/09/2009 01:41:25 PM 672 Views
I think we'll have to agree to disagree. BlackAdder - 19/09/2009 09:22:38 PM 692 Views
Huh Sidious - 19/09/2009 01:46:21 PM 752 Views
Re: Huh Shannow - 19/09/2009 02:21:43 PM 656 Views
Re: Huh Sidious - 19/09/2009 04:32:50 PM 675 Views
Fair enough... Shannow - 19/09/2009 05:08:33 PM 598 Views
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No, see my response to Agent Orange above. *NM* Shannow - 19/09/2009 06:07:14 PM 231 Views
Remove your blinders man... fionwe1987 - 19/09/2009 07:16:03 PM 665 Views
After third reread StinkerSkunk - 18/09/2009 10:58:12 PM 595 Views
Ituralde's plan ajfurst - 19/09/2009 02:04:58 PM 507 Views
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After a reread I think I know who sent the Trollocs Matrimony Cauthon - 19/09/2009 08:28:08 PM 544 Views
That is a really stupid idea Guava - 20/09/2009 01:20:09 AM 508 Views
Yeah Sidious - 20/09/2009 08:24:18 AM 505 Views
Another reason why Moridin is not Taim Matrimony Cauthon - 19/09/2009 08:41:03 PM 527 Views
This isn't evidence. Yvves - 19/09/2009 08:51:54 PM 638 Views
It isn't evidence, but it is another perspective to add to the table Matrimony Cauthon - 19/09/2009 09:11:15 PM 437 Views
Personally, I disagree. Digital_Eon - 20/09/2009 03:22:24 AM 537 Views
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Re: Do you think Moridin is struggling like Rand is? Heiko - 19/09/2009 11:29:36 PM 525 Views
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A lot of twisting my words there, and direct contradictions of your own points... Shannow - 20/09/2009 04:19:57 PM 605 Views
Not really Sidious - 20/09/2009 05:12:42 PM 671 Views
I couldn't have summarized it better myself... Shannow - 20/09/2009 05:25:56 PM 497 Views
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Possible... Shannow - 20/09/2009 06:08:21 PM 509 Views
So that's your argument now? fionwe1987 - 20/09/2009 07:35:52 PM 429 Views
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Its simply, really. Heiko - 20/09/2009 09:05:42 PM 527 Views
Hmmm... fionwe1987 - 20/09/2009 11:10:04 PM 555 Views
Fair enough... Shannow - 20/09/2009 11:12:53 PM 424 Views
Sure. *NM* fionwe1987 - 20/09/2009 11:25:50 PM 254 Views
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Well Heiko - 20/09/2009 08:56:43 PM 566 Views
Re: Well Sidious - 20/09/2009 09:40:51 PM 648 Views
Re: Wow, then I think you're in for a surprise Rurouni_Kenshin - 20/09/2009 09:07:48 PM 481 Views
Just a general comment... Shannow - 20/09/2009 09:13:51 PM 646 Views
Re: Just a general comment... Sidious - 20/09/2009 09:59:51 PM 1455 Views
Re: Just a general comment... Shannow - 20/09/2009 10:19:14 PM 459 Views
Re: Just a general comment... Sidious - 21/09/2009 04:58:38 AM 413 Views
I reject the cult of the "cool" villain. fionwe1987 - 20/09/2009 11:24:40 PM 531 Views
I don't really agree Sidious - 21/09/2009 05:02:10 AM 481 Views
But these aren't criminals... fionwe1987 - 21/09/2009 05:47:40 AM 412 Views
No, just the most heinous criminals imaginable Sidious - 21/09/2009 12:43:19 PM 621 Views
Re: No, just the most heinous criminals imaginable fionwe1987 - 22/09/2009 10:49:58 PM 543 Views
Doubt it... Etzel - 20/09/2009 02:10:37 PM 595 Views
I tend to agree with you, this time. AgentOrange - 20/09/2009 05:05:35 PM 482 Views
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