Lord of Chaos
Prologue
"Rahvin is dead, Great Lord. Yesterday." There was pain. Euphoria too strong became pain quickly. His arms and legs twitched. He was sweating, now. "Lanfear has vanished without a trace, just as Asmodean did. And Graendal says Moghedien failed to meet her as they had agreed. Also yesterday, Great Lord. I do not believe in coincidence."
THE CHOSEN DWINDLE, DEMANDRED. THE WEAK FALL AWAY. WHO BETRAYS ME SHALL DIE THE FINAL DEATH. ASMODEAN, TWISTED BY HIS WEAKNESS. RAHVIN DEAD IN HIS PRIDE. HE SERVED WELL, YET EVEN I CANNOT SAVE HIM FROM BALEFIRE. EVEN I CANNOT STEP OUTSIDE OF TIME. For an instant terrible anger filled that awful voice, and – could it be frustration? An instant only. DONE BY MY ANCIENT ENEMY, THE ONE CALLED DRAGON. WOULD YOU UNLEASH THE BALEFIRE IN MY SERVICE, DEMANDRED?
plenty of eyes on the events surrounding the deaths of both Asmo and Rhavin.
Prologue
"Rahvin is dead, Great Lord. Yesterday." There was pain. Euphoria too strong became pain quickly. His arms and legs twitched. He was sweating, now. "Lanfear has vanished without a trace, just as Asmodean did. And Graendal says Moghedien failed to meet her as they had agreed. Also yesterday, Great Lord. I do not believe in coincidence."
THE CHOSEN DWINDLE, DEMANDRED. THE WEAK FALL AWAY. WHO BETRAYS ME SHALL DIE THE FINAL DEATH. ASMODEAN, TWISTED BY HIS WEAKNESS. RAHVIN DEAD IN HIS PRIDE. HE SERVED WELL, YET EVEN I CANNOT SAVE HIM FROM BALEFIRE. EVEN I CANNOT STEP OUTSIDE OF TIME. For an instant terrible anger filled that awful voice, and – could it be frustration? An instant only. DONE BY MY ANCIENT ENEMY, THE ONE CALLED DRAGON. WOULD YOU UNLEASH THE BALEFIRE IN MY SERVICE, DEMANDRED?
plenty of eyes on the events surrounding the deaths of both Asmo and Rhavin.
Nor any others I recall. This isn't the first time that particular passage has been cited as an objection in this discussion, but it doesn't even definitively establish that the DO knew Asmo was dead then. It proves he knew Asmo could no longer be counted among the "dwindling" Forsaken because he'd been "twisted by his weakness" but that was true the moment he turned traitor and irrevocably joined his fortunes with Rands. Since Lanfear had been repeating that fact to all the Forsaken (and telling Asmo she was doing so) from the moment it happened as way to paint him into a corner and coerce his utmost efforts in teaching Rand the DOs statement about him doesn't prove much more than that he knew what Lanfear made sure everyone knew.
We don't even know that the DO was immediately aware of what happened to Rahvin, only that when he knew balefire was responsible when he DID learn of it. Rand launched a surprise blitzkrieg straight into the throne room that caught Rahvin by surprise in the middle of holding court because his little cabal had been manipulating Rand into a strike against Sammael. The DO might have been tipped off that something was up before Rand finished stalking Rahvin through the real and Tel'aran'rhiod palace, but if he had instant knowledge of every Forsakens experience Graendal wouldn't have Shielded Balthamel and left her to die, because it would be the same as slitting her own throat. There was more opportunity to warn the DO Rand was up to something then, and Balthamel was both in a location the DO would've been watching and still connected to him (Rand severed Asmos connection to him back in TSR), yet Graendal was still able to maintain plausible deniability about an act that was virtually cold blooded murder. Asmo wasn't even involved in Rands confrontation with Rahvin, and died in a random inconsequential part of the palace after Rand had already killed Rahvin and occupied the palace; again, RJ himself said it was a crime of opportunity: Even his killer didn't know he was there, so why would the DO?
As I said, circumstances were VERY different when Be'lal died; there was at least one other Forsaken on the scene and, since they both sent Trollocs and Myrddraal into the Stone soon thereafter, Lanfear and Sammael were either present or very close by, in addition to which Be'lal had manipulated Rand into THAT encounter to get Callandor, and that time Rand went where directed. If anything, the LoC Prologue is significant because, at that point, the Forsaken who'd been killed consisted of:
1) Rahvin, whom the DO says point blank he can't save,
2) Asmo, whom the DO says was "twisted in his pride" and lost,
3) Aginor, who'd already been resurrected,
4) Balthamel, who'd also already been resurrected,
5) Ishamael, who'd already been resurrected,
6) Lanfear, who'd already been resurrected and
7) Be'lal, who'd been killed but whose status has never, to my knowledge, been stated even in an RJ interview.
Graendal, Demandred, Sammael, Semirhage, Mesaana and Moghedien were all alive and at large, so every single Forsaken remaining is either a) declared lost by name, b) already resurrected or c) Be'lal.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Forsaken-Who's Actually Dead?
25/03/2011 03:31:48 PM
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Re: Forsaken-Who's Actually Dead?
25/03/2011 06:08:49 PM
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I appreciate you acknowledging the admittedly remote possibility of Be'lals return.
27/03/2011 03:57:45 PM
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The DO was aware of Asmodean's death immediately
27/03/2011 04:35:55 PM
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That does not follow from that passage.
28/03/2011 11:19:33 PM
- 670 Views
Re: That does not follow from that passage.
29/03/2011 01:48:25 PM
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Re: That does not follow from that passage.
01/04/2011 01:10:33 AM
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#1 reason (other that BF)I don't buy the Taim =Be'lal theory is Taim's disdain for the sword
01/04/2011 01:32:49 PM
- 609 Views
That assumes Be'lal isn't smart enough to use a misdirection ploy.
01/04/2011 11:59:26 PM
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I'm 99% certain RJ is quoted as saying Taim is not a new Forsaken .. I'll have to look for the quote
02/04/2011 06:28:41 PM
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Re: That does not follow from that passage.
02/04/2011 07:45:17 PM
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While I agree that Taim is most likely Taim, I don't see Demandred as the mastermind here
03/04/2011 05:22:07 PM
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Demandred told us this was 1 day after the events in Caemlyn.
01/04/2011 01:26:50 PM
- 539 Views
Graendal's the most likely source of the DOs knowledge about Asmo, but thereby hangs the tale.
01/04/2011 11:48:27 PM
- 536 Views
I still can't see Be'lal coming back ... what does that do for the story?
02/04/2011 06:22:33 PM
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Who do you think will be the last Forsaken--Lanfear or Ishamael? *NM*
29/03/2011 08:32:41 AM
- 268 Views