I found the Forsaken chapter somewhat disappointing. It was clearly the work of someone who had all the superficial information about each Forsaken, but was trying to summarize their personalities all over again as if presenting it for the first time.
Graendal was talking about Demandred and Semirhage as if thinking about them for the first time. From this chapter you wouldn't think she'd known them for four thousand years, give or take a little. Or rather, for about 300 years in realtime, give or take a few decades.
As an example:
Based on Demandred's reaction to one comment from Moridin, Graendal suddenly changes her opinion regarding which of Demandred or Semirhage is the more dangerous to her? What the hell? It's not like she hasn't observed their respective tactics, attitudes and attributes over the course of a WORLD WAR that lasted for 10 years!
I would think that she would have made up her mind about their comparative strengths by now.
What is clear to me now is that the female Forsaken are even more gender-biased than the males when it comes to assessing the strengths of fellow Chosen. Everyone was criticising Rahvin for underestimating Lanfear in FoH, but Graendal seems to naturally consider the female Semirhage to be a foe as dangerous as Demandred. This despite her acknowledging that Demandred might have been the Dragon HIMSELF had he stayed with the Light!
That simply does not make sense. It is clear that Demandred is the leader of the trio. And it is also clear that Graendal is not half as cunning and intelligent as everyone has been making out up to now.
For one, it has NEVER before been suggested that Demandred sought to keep his alliance with Mesaana and Semirhage secret from the other Forsaken. For pete's sake, they've openly huddled together AT FORSAKEN MEETINGS in previous books. Arangar knew about their alliance in Book 11, yet she did not consider it to be any kind of achievement to have this insight. It is open knowledge. Yet Graendal thinks herself smart for "cracking that secret." I mean, come on.
And the way Graendal thinks about Moridin - making him her pet etc. She clearly has immense delusions of grandeur.
My estimation of Graendal has dropped SIGNIFICANTLY after reading this chapter.
What has come across yet again, however, is just how dangerous Demandred is. In EVERY appearance thus far, throughout the series, he has only been regarded with respect or awe by other Forsaken. We have had references to his ability and menace from almost all the Forsaken by now.
Graendal refers to the immense danger he presents, and then her female bias seems to elevate Semirhage to a position equal to that of a potential Dragon. Only for an instant, though, until Sanderson seems to bring reality home to us, however dubious the suggestion that Graendal had not yet analysed the comparative strengths of these two Forsaken a few thousand years ago already.
More revealing than Graendal's opionion, however, was Arangar's comparative view of Graendal and Demandred. The common thread between Arangar and Graendal's views was their high estimates for Demandred's ability. The difference, is that Arangar considered Graendal a far less dangerous adversary to try and manipulate. If I recall, her words were something to the effect that Demandred was far too dangerous to play her games with.
I particularly enjoyed the casual way Demandred stated that he would have tracked Semirhage down and claimed her life in retribution had she killed Rand. None of the other Forsaken reacted with ridicule at his statement. Certainly Mesaana did not, and she knows Semirhage's strength - having compared it to her own before.
And despite Demandred's arrogance, he has never made idle boasts before. If anything, the contrary has been true. He has refrained from making any kind of threats the less controlled Sammael was prone to make.
My conclusions based on this chapter:
Graendal is dumber than we thought up to now.
Graendal is going to die in this book.
Demandred's stature was enhanced yet again. He has consistently been built up as a Forsaken of note, and will no doubt make a dramatic entry towards the very end of the series, playing a key role in the final outcome.
Moridin is starting to put personal issues above the goals of the Dark One. Or rather, his insanity is making him even more stupid than before. The idea of sacrificing an asset of Semirhage's ability just because she hurt his phantom hand a little is petty and short sighted in the extreme.
Graendal was talking about Demandred and Semirhage as if thinking about them for the first time. From this chapter you wouldn't think she'd known them for four thousand years, give or take a little. Or rather, for about 300 years in realtime, give or take a few decades.
As an example:
Based on Demandred's reaction to one comment from Moridin, Graendal suddenly changes her opinion regarding which of Demandred or Semirhage is the more dangerous to her? What the hell? It's not like she hasn't observed their respective tactics, attitudes and attributes over the course of a WORLD WAR that lasted for 10 years!
I would think that she would have made up her mind about their comparative strengths by now.
What is clear to me now is that the female Forsaken are even more gender-biased than the males when it comes to assessing the strengths of fellow Chosen. Everyone was criticising Rahvin for underestimating Lanfear in FoH, but Graendal seems to naturally consider the female Semirhage to be a foe as dangerous as Demandred. This despite her acknowledging that Demandred might have been the Dragon HIMSELF had he stayed with the Light!
That simply does not make sense. It is clear that Demandred is the leader of the trio. And it is also clear that Graendal is not half as cunning and intelligent as everyone has been making out up to now.
For one, it has NEVER before been suggested that Demandred sought to keep his alliance with Mesaana and Semirhage secret from the other Forsaken. For pete's sake, they've openly huddled together AT FORSAKEN MEETINGS in previous books. Arangar knew about their alliance in Book 11, yet she did not consider it to be any kind of achievement to have this insight. It is open knowledge. Yet Graendal thinks herself smart for "cracking that secret." I mean, come on.
And the way Graendal thinks about Moridin - making him her pet etc. She clearly has immense delusions of grandeur.
My estimation of Graendal has dropped SIGNIFICANTLY after reading this chapter.
What has come across yet again, however, is just how dangerous Demandred is. In EVERY appearance thus far, throughout the series, he has only been regarded with respect or awe by other Forsaken. We have had references to his ability and menace from almost all the Forsaken by now.
Graendal refers to the immense danger he presents, and then her female bias seems to elevate Semirhage to a position equal to that of a potential Dragon. Only for an instant, though, until Sanderson seems to bring reality home to us, however dubious the suggestion that Graendal had not yet analysed the comparative strengths of these two Forsaken a few thousand years ago already.
More revealing than Graendal's opionion, however, was Arangar's comparative view of Graendal and Demandred. The common thread between Arangar and Graendal's views was their high estimates for Demandred's ability. The difference, is that Arangar considered Graendal a far less dangerous adversary to try and manipulate. If I recall, her words were something to the effect that Demandred was far too dangerous to play her games with.
I particularly enjoyed the casual way Demandred stated that he would have tracked Semirhage down and claimed her life in retribution had she killed Rand. None of the other Forsaken reacted with ridicule at his statement. Certainly Mesaana did not, and she knows Semirhage's strength - having compared it to her own before.
And despite Demandred's arrogance, he has never made idle boasts before. If anything, the contrary has been true. He has refrained from making any kind of threats the less controlled Sammael was prone to make.
My conclusions based on this chapter:
Graendal is dumber than we thought up to now.
Graendal is going to die in this book.
Demandred's stature was enhanced yet again. He has consistently been built up as a Forsaken of note, and will no doubt make a dramatic entry towards the very end of the series, playing a key role in the final outcome.
Moridin is starting to put personal issues above the goals of the Dark One. Or rather, his insanity is making him even more stupid than before. The idea of sacrificing an asset of Semirhage's ability just because she hurt his phantom hand a little is petty and short sighted in the extreme.
This message last edited by Shannow on 18/09/2009 at 10:41:00 PM
TGS Prologue - your thoughts (part 2) *spoilers*
16/09/2009 04:55:21 AM
- 3270 Views
Where can i find it at? Can someone give me a link? *NM*
18/09/2009 02:21:10 AM
- 215 Views
mobipocket.com
18/09/2009 02:53:13 AM
- 668 Views
Thanks, It was interesting especially the last part of the prologue *NM*
20/09/2009 02:42:28 AM
- 266 Views
A pointless survey - take your guess at who wrote what of the Prologue
18/09/2009 01:30:24 PM
- 569 Views
Re: A pointless survey - take your guess at who wrote what of the Prologue
18/09/2009 07:08:43 PM
- 443 Views
The prologue gives us strong evidence that Graendal is weaker than Demi or Semi
18/09/2009 03:55:58 PM
- 648 Views
I'm a little surprised nobody is discussing this. I thought this would get more attention. *NM*
20/09/2009 09:17:57 PM
- 319 Views
Is it me or do the Forsaken seem more viscious?
18/09/2009 04:17:22 PM
- 638 Views
yep, leaner and meaner...except for mesaana-she's still twitchy after shadar haran *NM*
18/09/2009 05:09:29 PM
- 317 Views
Trollocs!
18/09/2009 05:35:12 PM
- 642 Views
Why not a gray man then?
18/09/2009 07:52:55 PM
- 654 Views
Because they wanted to destroy as much of the force as possible
19/09/2009 12:07:57 AM
- 525 Views
But there's no plausible deniability
19/09/2009 12:50:42 AM
- 574 Views
But even several grey men or slayer aren't going to get the deed done
19/09/2009 02:28:36 AM
- 596 Views
Who is Graendal going to wack?
18/09/2009 06:00:12 PM
- 602 Views
I think it could be Tam. *NM*
18/09/2009 06:05:12 PM
- 283 Views
Great idea.
18/09/2009 07:12:40 PM
- 560 Views
Its about time for Perrin to reunite with Rand he's got Faile back
18/09/2009 08:15:47 PM
- 540 Views
Re: Its about time for Perrin to reunite with Rand he's got Faile back
18/09/2009 10:41:12 PM
- 552 Views
Mesaana's statement gives us a big clue about Demandred's and Moridin's whereabouts
18/09/2009 09:11:49 PM
- 697 Views
My favorite quote: "Who will win? The child or the fool?" - Graendal
18/09/2009 09:48:55 PM
- 656 Views
but she didn't say 'the fool or the fool'
19/09/2009 02:07:20 PM
- 561 Views
Yes, because Cannoli has long valued the opinions of the Forsaken...
20/09/2009 06:10:58 AM
- 621 Views
Forsaken Chapter
18/09/2009 10:30:10 PM
- 622 Views
I agree that Graendal will die in this book.... her and A'rangar *NM*
19/09/2009 08:14:07 AM
- 260 Views
Various comments
19/09/2009 05:38:21 PM
- 642 Views
The Dying Man
19/09/2009 06:48:09 PM
- 582 Views
After a reread I think I know who sent the Trollocs
19/09/2009 08:28:08 PM
- 549 Views
Another reason why Moridin is not Taim
19/09/2009 08:41:03 PM
- 533 Views
This isn't evidence.
19/09/2009 08:51:54 PM
- 644 Views
It isn't evidence, but it is another perspective to add to the table
19/09/2009 09:11:15 PM
- 442 Views
Why is Moridin and not Demandred marshalling the Dark Forces in the Blight?
19/09/2009 10:35:06 PM
- 528 Views
I think there are many issues here
19/09/2009 10:51:13 PM
- 635 Views
The Malign Influence of the Forsaken
19/09/2009 11:08:00 PM
- 547 Views
I have doubts about that degree of conversion
19/09/2009 11:17:44 PM
- 486 Views
Re: Why is Moridin and not Demandred marshalling the Dark Forces in the Blight?
20/09/2009 09:44:06 AM
- 619 Views
Did Demandred make the connection between Moridin's phantom hand-pain and Semirhage's firebolt?
20/09/2009 12:11:32 PM
- 635 Views
I don't think that Demandred will be a key player at the end with Rand
20/09/2009 01:00:58 PM
- 591 Views
Some sweeping statements there...
20/09/2009 01:21:46 PM
- 583 Views
Not at all
20/09/2009 03:34:59 PM
- 604 Views
A lot of twisting my words there, and direct contradictions of your own points...
20/09/2009 04:19:57 PM
- 612 Views
Not really
20/09/2009 05:12:42 PM
- 677 Views
I couldn't have summarized it better myself...
20/09/2009 05:25:56 PM
- 502 Views
But...
20/09/2009 06:01:33 PM
- 603 Views
Possible...
20/09/2009 06:08:21 PM
- 514 Views
So that's your argument now?
20/09/2009 07:35:52 PM
- 431 Views
I think you took that the wrong way...
20/09/2009 08:53:28 PM
- 520 Views
Wow, then I think you're in for a surprise
20/09/2009 08:38:37 PM
- 496 Views
Just a general comment...
20/09/2009 09:13:51 PM
- 650 Views
Re: Just a general comment...
20/09/2009 09:59:51 PM
- 1462 Views
I reject the cult of the "cool" villain.
20/09/2009 11:24:40 PM
- 536 Views
I don't really agree
21/09/2009 05:02:10 AM
- 485 Views
But these aren't criminals...
21/09/2009 05:47:40 AM
- 419 Views