Why is it odd to think of the Pléiade editions as hardcovers? They're listed as relié and certainly have nice leather covers. I wish the paper were thicker and the books bigger, but they are still very nice books.
I love them. Their small size is actually part of their attraction for me. I find them very comfortable to hold and carry to read anywhere, despite their length.
The fun is just semantics, really. Much is always made of how supple the Pléiade covers are, so it's funny to see the English label "hardcover" applied to them.
but for French books you either have cheap books or Pléiade and nothing in between (with a few rare exceptions).
Yes and no. Paperbacks aren't necessarily cheaply made - some of the "grands formats" from French editors are printed on very high quality paper and are bound (cousus) - not glued like it's done in the US, despite having paperbacks. I was handed down by members of my family several old volumes from la Blanche (Gallimard's main collection) and they still look really good despite being 40-50 years old. The French "grands formats" (I think you call those Trade) are in general of higher quality than their US equivalent (I find the paper used for the big US paperbacks usually fairly cheap. The quality of the mass market paperbacks is also much lower, most of them similar to the very cheap PB collections like J'ai Lu). I think I mentionned this to you long ago (or maybe not to you, on this MB in any case...) but there's more than economics involved (some French bookclubs do put out US style rigid cover editions - mostly of american translations - and sell them for the same price as the regular editions, so it's not really an economic issue, I think). The French simply prefer supple to rigid covers, and we do prefer smaller (and lighter) books in general. When the paper covers were introduced they were rapidly adopted - even a high end collection like La Pléiade has kept on purpose the size of the "livres de poche" the young French readers loved so much and sought to make its high quality covers thin and supple. We have so few real hardcovers (for literature, anyway) because there's no demand for them. A lot of people around me actually really dislike American hardcovers. They find them cumbersome to handle and heavy, and not very attractive with or without their dust jackets. They also find they take an awful lot of shelf space (it's true enough, and though personally I don't hate US hardcovers, I buy less and less now because they eat too much of my living space) and they dislike how cumbersome they are to carry out of home. I had a discussion not very long ago with a friend who hates US hardcovers, and his argument was that they're just way too sturdy for nothing and unappealing cheap and mass produced imitations of old style binding, sometimes of fairly low quality (very average printing, cheap binding).
When the French put out hardcover editions, which is rarely, they are high end products and much greater care is taken in making them attractive objects. Omnibus is one editor that releases its books like that (but they're not from authors that interest you - a lot are translations, or anthologies. Many Dumas novels are available in that collection).
If you ever come across a nice hardcover edition of Stendhal's Chartreuse de Parme or Hugo's Quatrevingt-treize, please let me know.
Keep an eye on used books, not necessarily antique but pre-1950 editions. I don't think there's any bound edition of either in print, but there will be older editions (typically they'll be leather or imitation leather, the fake-clothe/cardboard covers were never much to the French taste in binding). They're relatively rare for classics now - again, no real demand for those in France. The other thing is that those in France who love nice books like the pricey high end stuff with very sober classic design (and so they hunt mostly for antique editions...), they wouldn't be happy at all with the mass-produced US style hardcovers.
Edit: there are exceptions, sectors where rigid covers and bound books are the norm in French edition. The first is for reference books that are handled a lot. Dictionaries, grammars and such are commonly published that way. Another exception is for children books, and schoolbooks/textbooks too. Yet another exception is for "comics" (bande dessinée). Finally, you'll find US style binding in most public and school libraries. They're not different editions, the libraries just bind the books themselves with rigid cardboard covers.
This message last edited by DomA on 01/03/2011 at 04:00:57 AM
Can someone explain to me how Jordan is not a particularly good writer?
21/02/2011 05:41:31 PM
- 3190 Views
I personally see it as more of RJ being a fantastic story teller, but not a well structured writer.
21/02/2011 06:44:21 PM
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Re: I personally see it as more of RJ being a fantastic story teller, but not a well structured
22/02/2011 10:59:25 PM
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What do you think about the Southern Gothic authors?
23/02/2011 08:08:26 AM
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Re: What do you think about the Southern Gothic authors?
23/02/2011 10:51:57 AM
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For the same reason that most people think they have above average intelligence.
21/02/2011 11:13:34 PM
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Re: For the same reason that most people think they have above average intelligence. *NM*
22/02/2011 02:39:20 PM
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Re: For the same reason that most people think they have above average intelligence.
22/02/2011 02:41:37 PM
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That's possibly the best explanation of literary criticism I've ever seen.
23/02/2011 02:47:12 AM
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I can take a shot at that, since nobody else seems willing to.
22/02/2011 07:29:20 AM
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Re: I can take a shot at that, since nobody else seems willing to.
22/02/2011 11:23:38 PM
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That has very little to do with anything unless you can provide a real-world analogy to a channeler.
22/02/2011 11:30:52 PM
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Re: That has very little to do with anything unless you can provide a real-world analogy to a
23/02/2011 12:02:24 AM
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As far as I'm concerned, the only way to gauge whether an author is good or not is ...
22/02/2011 03:58:17 PM
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Re: Can someone explain to me how Jordan is not a particularly good writer?
22/02/2011 06:27:11 PM
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I think it has more to do with limitations imposed by how the story was organized and edited.
22/02/2011 07:50:18 PM
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That's interesting, and I have a weird agree/disagree here; also, that Adam Roberts sucks
23/02/2011 02:15:12 AM
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Re: That's interesting, and I have a weird agree/disagree here; also, that Adam Roberts sucks
23/02/2011 11:02:14 AM
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adam roberts reviews
23/02/2011 03:53:49 AM
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And I suspect those who prefer the BS books are those who largely read WoT for the story. *NM*
23/02/2011 08:06:16 AM
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Oh GAWD!... not another pointer to Robert Adam's incoherant muckraking
24/02/2011 07:47:35 PM
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I think DomA answered the question best, but the "do you like it" argument is weak.
22/02/2011 10:32:51 PM
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Re: I think DomA answered the question best, but the "do you like it" argument is weak.
22/02/2011 11:16:24 PM
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The Necronomicon isn't actually a book, you know. *NM*
22/02/2011 11:28:29 PM
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There are nine, actually...
23/02/2011 12:04:55 AM
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Lovecraft's Necronomicon was fictitious. If you want to count fanfiction, fine. *NM*
23/02/2011 12:38:07 AM
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Based on how poorly worded that response was, I'm not sure what to think of it. *NM*
23/02/2011 12:13:00 AM
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I hope I am misunderstanding you.
23/02/2011 10:57:47 PM
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Re: I hope I am misunderstanding you.
24/02/2011 10:41:09 AM
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If the core of the story is all that matters, why read a book
24/02/2011 10:32:01 PM
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Re: If the core of the story is all that matters, why read a book
24/02/2011 11:23:42 PM
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So wait, style is good?
25/02/2011 12:32:07 AM
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That depends...
23/02/2011 03:00:35 AM
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I didn't say aesthetics was the primary criterion. I named three criteria.
23/02/2011 05:39:03 AM
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the "do you like it" is the most important criterion
23/02/2011 10:45:17 PM
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If you don't mind me asking...
24/02/2011 01:05:12 AM
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I don't mind that you ask, but I'm not going to engage in a defense of literature.
24/02/2011 05:35:27 PM
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Re: I don't mind that you ask, but I'm not going to engage in a defense of literature.
24/02/2011 11:26:55 PM
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I'm sure you have a wonderful job awaiting in fast food service.
25/02/2011 01:57:15 AM
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Re: I'm sure you have a wonderful job awaiting in fast food service.
25/02/2011 08:56:06 AM
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...
25/02/2011 01:07:22 AM
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It is not a serious question.
25/02/2011 01:53:59 AM
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Is that so?
25/02/2011 05:58:31 AM
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I'm not fixated with Jordan.
25/02/2011 03:13:56 PM
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Then why do you keep trying to qualify the passage in relation to him?
25/02/2011 06:29:31 PM
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You're conflating two things.
25/02/2011 07:32:59 PM
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All right, now we're getting somewhere.
26/02/2011 12:40:57 AM
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Okay, here you go. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt as to your sincerity.
26/02/2011 03:20:44 PM
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Thank you, and I agree with all your explanations. *NM*
26/02/2011 07:28:09 PM
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No, it is a serious question, just one that can never be seriously answered.
25/02/2011 03:28:48 PM
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Your opinion isn't as valid as anyone else's if that's your opinion.
25/02/2011 04:44:57 PM
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Re: Your opinion isn't as valid as anyone else's if that's your opinion.
25/02/2011 06:05:18 PM
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I'm not wasting my time proving something to an internet moron and troll like you.
25/02/2011 07:36:19 PM
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Ah yes, the wonderful "dissmiss the person who disagrees with me by insulting him tactic"
28/02/2011 02:30:35 PM
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Re: Your opinion isn't as valid as anyone else's if that's your opinion.
26/02/2011 11:06:26 AM
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Re: I find this whole thing elitist and more than a bit silly
23/02/2011 06:45:05 AM
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Why do you think mind-expanding literature is restricted to the classics?
23/02/2011 08:03:59 AM
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Re: Why do you think mind-expanding literature is restricted to the classics?
23/02/2011 09:25:10 AM
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Of course people read for pleasure.
23/02/2011 09:04:24 PM
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Ok...
24/02/2011 08:59:27 AM
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"Yeah well, that's, like, just your opinion, man." Good argument.
24/02/2011 03:43:24 PM
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I'm curious to hear who Tom and DomA consider a "very good writer"?
24/02/2011 05:49:13 PM
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Among living writers?
24/02/2011 08:16:08 PM
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My list would be similar...
26/02/2011 07:24:11 AM
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That was a very good list.
26/02/2011 03:07:31 PM
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Re: That was a very good list.
27/02/2011 04:51:43 AM
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Oh, and another question
27/02/2011 05:28:47 PM
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Re: Oh, and another question
01/03/2011 03:42:02 AM
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I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great'
27/02/2011 11:14:30 AM
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Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great'
28/02/2011 11:51:49 PM
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Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great'
03/03/2011 12:01:30 AM
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Re: I think the two of you have taken too narrow a meaning of 'great'
03/03/2011 02:17:06 PM
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He's a great storyteller, but his prose is somewhat uninspiring. *NM*
27/02/2011 07:28:00 PM
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