The issue is that the Fisher King story is about the Land, not the People
RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 08/02/2011 08:02:24 PM
It seems to me that the Fisher King/Messainic mythos is about a person dying for others. Without the other people, the Fisher King is nothing but an individual connected to the primal undercurrent of the earth - they need a community and society to make their sacrifice mean something, otherwise any victory they achieve is Pyrrhic in nature.
Thus it seems to me that interpreting the Fisher King story to mean that this person is the be all and end all with noone else having any greater importance overlooks what the role of the Fisher King is. If Rand were to win, but Elayne, Egwene, Mat, Perrin and Nynaeve were to have failed in their individual quests, I would say that the world would perish anyway, though not at the Dark Ones' hands. As Min's vision showed us so early on in the series, without the others working for the greater good, Rand's spark of light could not match the darkness, and only when the other sparks started joining with him, were other points of light able to converge so that the light could be equal to the darkness.
That vision indicated that the Dragon Reborn is a necessary condition to win Tarmon Gaidon, but the roles of others can be necessary, as well. Rand's felt this multiple times in the series, but the earliest IMO was during "The Great Hunt" - all Rand knows is that if he didn't go and try to rescue Egwene, some aspect of him would have failed. I'd argue that he was sensing the necessity for him to save her in order to acquire a necessary supporter to make his mission succeed. The Pattern may very well have endowed Egwene, Mat, Perrin, Elayne, Nynaeve and Min with their gifts and advantages so that each could be transformational figures in their own rights without Rand having to be everywhere at once.
Thus it seems to me that interpreting the Fisher King story to mean that this person is the be all and end all with noone else having any greater importance overlooks what the role of the Fisher King is. If Rand were to win, but Elayne, Egwene, Mat, Perrin and Nynaeve were to have failed in their individual quests, I would say that the world would perish anyway, though not at the Dark Ones' hands. As Min's vision showed us so early on in the series, without the others working for the greater good, Rand's spark of light could not match the darkness, and only when the other sparks started joining with him, were other points of light able to converge so that the light could be equal to the darkness.
That vision indicated that the Dragon Reborn is a necessary condition to win Tarmon Gaidon, but the roles of others can be necessary, as well. Rand's felt this multiple times in the series, but the earliest IMO was during "The Great Hunt" - all Rand knows is that if he didn't go and try to rescue Egwene, some aspect of him would have failed. I'd argue that he was sensing the necessity for him to save her in order to acquire a necessary supporter to make his mission succeed. The Pattern may very well have endowed Egwene, Mat, Perrin, Elayne, Nynaeve and Min with their gifts and advantages so that each could be transformational figures in their own rights without Rand having to be everywhere at once.
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
Rand is the Great Serpent
08/02/2011 04:21:32 AM
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Yeah, that seems logical, funny to see rand bite himself in the ass :p *NM*
08/02/2011 06:31:44 AM
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I want to reply and say that's not exactly how I picture it, but I don't want to be dirty. *NM*
08/02/2011 06:50:17 AM
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That actually seems cosmically plausible - but I really hope this is not the case
08/02/2011 03:27:29 PM
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But that has always been the case. I am astounded that it isn't recognized more often...
08/02/2011 03:58:24 PM
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This. There's a reason one of his archetypes is the Fisher King. *NM*
08/02/2011 07:00:05 PM
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The issue is that the Fisher King story is about the Land, not the People
08/02/2011 08:02:24 PM
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None of this is contradicted by what I have posited
08/02/2011 09:16:48 PM
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But the chess analogy is what I'm seeing - the Dragon is necessary in degree not in total.
09/02/2011 02:42:15 PM
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The Fisher King is not a messianic myth.
08/02/2011 10:07:44 PM
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Fisher King title and legends are connected to the Messianic mythos
09/02/2011 09:47:14 PM
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The disciples, not Jesus, were the "fishers of men." EDITED.
09/02/2011 10:08:24 PM
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Yeah, you're right about the fish - I was reaching (and typed too fast to think)
10/02/2011 05:30:29 PM
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Re: But that has always been the case. I am astounded that it isn't recognized more often...
09/02/2011 07:47:14 AM
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You two are like a married couple without the benefit of the makeup sex.
09/02/2011 09:30:10 AM
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Huh? No. You are so off it's not even funny.
09/02/2011 03:16:05 AM
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Looks like somebody hasn't read The Gathering Storm.
09/02/2011 06:17:55 AM
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Re: Looks like somebody hasn't read The Gathering Storm.
09/02/2011 06:20:21 AM
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Atop Dragonmount, for one...
09/02/2011 07:36:56 AM
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I'm exhausted, so I may be misremembering.
09/02/2011 09:27:18 AM
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You sound like Ishamael
09/02/2011 02:38:52 PM
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Re: You sound like Ishamael
09/02/2011 03:17:58 PM
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I'm definitely not confusing this with the real world roflmao
09/02/2011 03:54:04 PM
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Re: I'm definitely not confusing this with the real world roflmao
09/02/2011 06:10:01 PM
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Seems to me that you're confused.
09/02/2011 08:27:06 PM
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The amount of elitism on this board would be depressing if it weren't so damned funny.
09/02/2011 09:18:13 PM
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What depresses me...
09/02/2011 11:23:13 PM
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I, personally, like it. It makes sense for the Dragon to be an incarnation of the Serpent.
09/02/2011 11:39:28 PM
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