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Re: Aha DomA Send a noteboard - 06/02/2011 10:38:43 PM
I was writing out a rebuttal to this when I realised you're actually right...most so'jhin are probably da'covale, but Alwhin became Suroth's so'jhin but was still allowed to act a sul'dam, which I doubt she would have been had she then been property. And Selucia is now a Truthspeaker, and free by definition, though she continues to act as Fortuona's Voice. Though there's a bit of contradiction there - if being an Imperial da'covale, tattooed with the ravens etc, marks you and all your descendants, which we've been explicitly told it does, then it shouldn't have been possible for Selucia to be freed. But I suppose if the Empress decrees something, it is done, law or no law.


The Empress' word is the Law, but in any case, what makes you think that a Voice or a Truthspeaker is "by definition free"? As far as I remember, Selucia is still da'covale - she was simply offered, as is the tradition of the Imperial family, the privilege to choose her next posting once Tuon became Empress - and she chose to be Tuon's so'jhin. A Truthspeaker is untouchabl and can say anything to the one she serves, but I don't think it was ever established by Jordan that the position is filled by someone not da'covale.

It is possible to give back freedom to a da'covale. Egeanin explained to Domon how she might free him. Is it common for the Empress to free any of the da'covale who belong to the Throne itself (who are the only ones tattooed with the ravens - so presumably Selucia isn't)? We don't know. But presumably, if anyone can free da'covale if certain conditions are met, then so can the Empress lift the status for a bloodline she judges "redeemed", or for a specific individual.

Quite possible. Though it seems odd that she managed to get promoted far enough to become a Captain of the Gold - she must have won a great many military victories - without at some point being raised to the Blood.


We don't know for certain if being raised to the Blood is hereditary in every case, or if the Empress can bestow the honor on someone for life only (as, for example, is done nowadays with honorary knighthoods in Britain)

What we know for sure is that there are hereditary High Blood houses, whose ancestors came with and served Luthair. We also know some people are raised to the High Blood for especially deserving service to the Empire. We don't know for sure if this founds a new House, or if the honor is bestowed only on the individual and not on his descendants. It's quite possibly the latter. Even in Hawkwing's time the Paendrags were no huge fans of the traditional blood nobility - preferring to reward loyalty and service over birth.


quote>This is one of the best explanations of the Seanchan culture that I've seen so far - I've thought along these lines, but never been able to articulate it as well as this.

Thanks. I forgot to add that the Seanchan system seems based on the Age of Legends' - a more or less distorted version of it. From what we know, this was another fairly rigid society - but probably not as rigid or hrash as the Seanchan's version. Still... it was another system of castes (Aes Sedai, Da'shain Aiel and all the other ones we know nothing about), where the way to power and rewards resides in service to society. Incidentally, the punishment devices of the AOL are in some ways similar to the status of da'covale, though without the unfair hereditary status.

The Seanchan believe most criminals are more useful pacified and forced to work for society than executed or put in prisons. The hereditary aspect is probably the logical extension of the near worship given to certain bloodlines (the Paendrag's most of all), from which arose the belief that some bloodlines become tainted by crime.
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Tiny question about Egeanin - 06/02/2011 12:19:48 AM 1458 Views
I scanned the WoT encyclopedia and wot wikia, no mention of her mom, but the library at - 06/02/2011 03:29:00 AM 1372 Views
Why would Egeanin inherit the later slavery? - 07/02/2011 09:27:32 PM 1196 Views
Re: Why would Egeanin inherit the later slavery? - 07/02/2011 11:03:26 PM 1102 Views
DomA sorted it all out, but yes, I'd read that slavery was hereditary. *NM* - 07/02/2011 11:09:27 PM 398 Views
Re: Why would Egeanin inherit the later slavery? - 08/02/2011 11:41:52 AM 815 Views
You do know that the Papacy and the bishopric of Rome are the same, yes? - 08/02/2011 07:03:51 PM 711 Views
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I most assuredly am not. - 11/02/2011 09:02:42 PM 800 Views
Re: Tiny question about Egeanin - 06/02/2011 01:12:15 PM 1348 Views
Aha - 06/02/2011 03:16:48 PM 1214 Views
Re: Aha - 06/02/2011 10:38:43 PM 1105 Views
Re: Aha - 07/02/2011 12:31:15 AM 1080 Views
Definitely Da'covale - 07/02/2011 04:05:41 AM 862 Views
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Re: Aha - 12/02/2011 02:33:31 PM 792 Views
yeah, very well said *NM* - 13/02/2011 07:09:26 PM 355 Views

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