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Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 03/02/2011 06:31:34 PM
You know I've always wondered about the strength and dexterity thing. If the strongest possible man and the strongest possible woman can do absolutely everything to the same extent individually (talents, experience, knowledge not withstanding), what balances out the woman's ability to link?


The balance is that men can handle more of the One Power flowing through their bodies in general, and in certain Links, they need to lead. In all fairness, it's a nebulous question. It is somewhat like asking 'Women can get pregnant and men can't. What is the men's balance for this?' I don't believe any of these abilities were supposed to be "balanced with each other" insomuch as they were simply facts to be dealt with.

And if the strongest woman can do everything the strongest man can do, and vice versa, then is dexterity not just another name for strength, since in the end they don't grant different things?


Yes, which is why I think RJ was trying his hardest to get away from the term 'strength' as used by fans. The characters used that because they are in the world, but if you mean strength to indicate effectiveness, than it really is more nebulous than just taking into account magnitude of Power the body can handle before being destroyed. It is noteworthy that the more dangerous Forsaken don't use the term 'strength' the same way the Third Age channelers do to refer to channeling - they tend to refer to training instead.

Is greater dexterity better suited for certain tasks and greater strength for others?


Yes; we are told that in the Age of Legends, the Hall or Servants chose its' agents and mission leaders based upon particular criteria needed to best accomplish a task. Some tasks required more power, others a certain balance of skills, and etc.

A good example would be Healing; if the Hall needed a very complex Healing to be performed, they would look for the most skilled Healer/Restorer that was available, not necessarily the most powerful of oldest. Nynaeve, in terms of Healing, is much more powerful than Rand could ever dream to be, so for this task, he would not be of much assistance.
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
This message last edited by RugbyPlayingAshaman on 03/02/2011 at 07:05:25 PM
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Proof that Asmodean's effective One Power strength is greater than Moghedien's... Shannow - 03/02/2011 03:22:42 PM 2300 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 04:08:29 PM 1240 Views
Why do you deliberately misquote the text? Shannow - 03/02/2011 04:12:50 PM 1257 Views
You're deliberately being obtuse... as usual... fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:07:09 PM 1192 Views
Right. So Egwene can shield someone of Egwene's own strength, plus Elayne, AND weave a dozen flows.. Shannow - 03/02/2011 10:26:27 PM 1195 Views
fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:46:40 PM 1064 Views
No. Egwene is very close to her full potential at the time... Shannow - 03/02/2011 11:44:20 PM 1168 Views
Bullshit... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 12:39:42 AM 1041 Views
Unbiased view... Nargs - 04/02/2011 01:46:40 AM 1178 Views
The WoT Board in a nutshell. *NM* Ghavrel - 04/02/2011 02:34:32 AM 564 Views
Yeah, thats unbiased... *NM* fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 05:23:17 PM 548 Views
Don't agree Sidious - 04/02/2011 08:30:02 AM 1156 Views
Fair comment, but my question then is: Shannow - 04/02/2011 11:26:25 AM 1040 Views
I think the WO and Moiraine also Force Egwene as they know what's coming and need her darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 03:55:46 PM 1045 Views
It is specifically stated that Egwene was forced by the rigours of the damane training... Shannow - 04/02/2011 05:15:20 PM 1051 Views
Egwene has been continually forced... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 06:02:08 PM 989 Views
The direct quotes contradict you... Shannow - 04/02/2011 06:23:03 PM 1089 Views
actually the quote substantiates that Egwene is only slightly stronger than Moiraine in TSR darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 07:51:10 PM 1096 Views
here ya go they were all Forced darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 07:59:40 PM 961 Views
Nope... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 08:23:00 PM 1046 Views
I think you may have misused the term - RJ meant 'effective' to mean something a bit different. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 04:40:41 PM 1216 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. Shannow - 03/02/2011 05:30:15 PM 1135 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. Master Ablar - 03/02/2011 05:45:30 PM 1134 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 06:31:34 PM 1058 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. Kieran - 03/02/2011 07:06:50 PM 1083 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 07:17:25 PM 1071 Views
We still don't know who is effectively stronger, and not sure if Asmo was equal to Rand by the end. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 06:58:14 PM 892 Views
See my post above, I would say Asmo is Weaker than Moggy... *NM* Kieran - 03/02/2011 07:10:07 PM 572 Views
I'm not certain either way. I think it all depends on the terms being used. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 07:22:01 PM 1113 Views
Effective strength means who can make the bigger fireball, the stronger shield, the thicker balefire Shannow - 03/02/2011 07:42:17 PM 962 Views
I still hold to the point that your analogy is false. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 04/02/2011 04:20:05 PM 1022 Views
My impression of your view, in general, is that... Shannow - 03/02/2011 07:33:37 PM 993 Views
How... fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:15:34 PM 946 Views
If Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did to them, then I rest my case... Shannow - 03/02/2011 10:36:46 PM 1105 Views
Re: If Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did to them, then I rest my case... fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:50:57 PM 1060 Views
Got you now... Shannow - 03/02/2011 11:32:49 PM 1019 Views
You're clearly delusional... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 12:59:26 AM 1022 Views
You sound ridiculous Nargs - 04/02/2011 02:05:18 AM 1045 Views
Re: You sound ridiculous Kieran - 04/02/2011 02:23:50 AM 1103 Views
Ok... Nargs - 04/02/2011 04:13:34 PM 969 Views
Elayne is not stronger than most AS at this point in the books darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:14:41 PM 1000 Views
Where on earth does it say Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did? darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:06:48 PM 1066 Views
Re: How... Sidious - 04/02/2011 08:34:21 AM 1162 Views
They're very close now... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 05:46:48 PM 1126 Views
That is unfortunately not true... Shannow - 04/02/2011 06:02:34 PM 1112 Views
It is... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 06:05:05 PM 958 Views
Re: It is... Sidious - 04/02/2011 06:31:32 PM 1212 Views
Yup... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 08:20:33 PM 983 Views
Semirhage hated Lanfear, but dared not act against her strength... Shannow - 04/02/2011 08:29:24 PM 1375 Views
yet Graendal showed a lot of respect for Semirhage ... even assumed she was the most darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:53:05 PM 1054 Views
Graendal on Semirhage and Demandred... Shannow - 04/02/2011 09:23:50 PM 1315 Views
No Sidious - 04/02/2011 11:10:00 PM 1093 Views
CLAPS *NM* darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 05:15:21 AM 602 Views
We will just have to disagree on this one... Shannow - 05/02/2011 06:57:36 AM 976 Views
Indeed Sidious - 05/02/2011 07:38:10 AM 977 Views
I agree with you ... especially abou the perpective issue darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:00:58 PM 1072 Views
I agree with you here darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:19:35 PM 983 Views
I don't think that's true.. fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 08:21:38 PM 925 Views
the evidence is that Aginor burnt out trying to channel the Eye and Rand didn't darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:23:50 PM 892 Views
Considering that Asmodean and Rand were using a sa'angreal... ˥ɐ ʎpu∀ɹ - 04/02/2011 04:55:03 AM 1197 Views
I think this is a no brainer Sidious - 04/02/2011 08:22:00 AM 1143 Views
The nice fact which is proven is the magnitude of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage... Shannow - 04/02/2011 11:32:00 AM 965 Views
Nynaeve could be at 90% or 80% when she faced Moghedien we have no way of measuring that darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:42:03 PM 960 Views
Disagree... Shannow - 04/02/2011 08:51:55 PM 1046 Views
spin it all you like... I'm tired of this arument and your creative quoting. darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:56:14 PM 936 Views
The creative quoter is Fionwe, not me. You quote correctly, but your interpretations are way off... Shannow - 04/02/2011 09:05:43 PM 915 Views
Nynaeve has grown in strength, but she started nearly as strong as Moiraine! darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 05:35:05 AM 937 Views
Starting out at Moiraine's strength meant starting out at barely 30% of her full potential... Shannow - 05/02/2011 07:05:46 AM 991 Views
Nynaeve's strength Sidious - 05/02/2011 07:49:07 AM 1032 Views
Agree, Egwene has never been as strong as Nynaeve at any stage. *NM* darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:03:25 PM 660 Views
I disagree that Moiraine is 30% of Nynaeve. Much closer to 50% of Nynaeve. EDIT darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:02:06 PM 1124 Views
Minor quibbles aside... fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 04:05:30 PM 1113 Views
Agreed, the exact numbers are arbitrary, I place Egwene a tad higher than you ... EDIT darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 04:30:00 PM 930 Views
Re: Agreed, the exact numbers are arbitrary, I place Egwene a tad higher than you ... EDIT fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 06:09:41 PM 1066 Views
shrugs darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 06:46:02 PM 990 Views
Re: shrugs fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 08:03:37 PM 1017 Views
I don't recall the Merise quote you are refering too and they have not been together in the series darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 09:20:56 PM 918 Views
I'm sorry, I meant the glossary entry... fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 10:29:46 PM 950 Views
Thanks for clarifying darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 11:12:19 PM 904 Views
Re: Thanks for clarifying fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 12:42:51 AM 955 Views
fair enough ... I can agree to Cadsuane and Bode both being 70 with Egwene and co at 80 *NM* darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 04:29:49 AM 516 Views
Cool! *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 04:18:52 PM 549 Views
Sorry, but here your entire Bell Curve goes up in smoke... Shannow - 06/02/2011 01:13:15 PM 919 Views
In fact, Moiraine is even STRONGER than I postulated in the above post... Shannow - 06/02/2011 01:22:11 PM 1309 Views
well... Sidious - 06/02/2011 02:11:02 PM 1046 Views
Only a separate Bell Curve for the Age of Legends - when the average strength was higher - will work Shannow - 06/02/2011 03:29:49 PM 966 Views
Or, you know, the Aes Sedai aren't a representative sample... *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 04:19:22 PM 671 Views
I don't think Strength was higher in the AOL I think there were just more channelers darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 04:50:42 PM 1019 Views
Yup. fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 05:30:54 PM 930 Views
Trivial darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 06:10:55 PM 952 Views
Uhhh... no... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 04:18:19 PM 852 Views
Read these facts slowly, maybe you will grasp the implication then... Shannow - 06/02/2011 04:41:02 PM 1018 Views
you are missing the fact that women like Sharina have no interest in the Tower darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 05:05:10 PM 1031 Views
You equate random exclusions with the deliberate block exclusion of 37.5% weakest women... Shannow - 06/02/2011 05:41:47 PM 982 Views
wrong darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 06:08:20 PM 1064 Views
That is weak logic in the extreme... Shannow - 06/02/2011 06:16:46 PM 954 Views
what I'm saying is that a representative sample of the entire population darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 06:40:51 PM 998 Views
Yes. *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:47:59 PM 614 Views
Yes. *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:48:00 PM 531 Views
But you don't prove that the undiscovered women are stronger. They may well be weaker... Shannow - 06/02/2011 07:26:27 PM 851 Views
Amys is far from the strongest WO! fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 07:37:14 PM 1176 Views
Explain the 1000 women they found in Murandy then... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:26:46 PM 945 Views
And a 1000 years ago... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:33:29 PM 980 Views
The only implication I grasped is that you don't grasp math... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:21:12 PM 1063 Views
Circular reasoning... Shannow - 06/02/2011 07:03:53 PM 1006 Views
No, reasoning based on facts and what RJ said, both of which you ignore... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 07:34:21 PM 1258 Views
If you're going to ignore direct quotes, then we may as well stop right now... Shannow - 06/02/2011 08:42:40 PM 1089 Views
Agreed. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 04/02/2011 04:32:05 PM 1059 Views
Agree. *NM* fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 05:49:05 PM 615 Views
agreed *NM* darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:27:22 PM 630 Views
off tangent question: Has Nynaeve yet to reach full potential or did she already after being ... Bookwyrm - 04/02/2011 08:39:29 PM 1071 Views
I think the general concensus is that after the CK she was forced to her full potential darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:44:29 PM 1001 Views
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