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From a plot standpoint I very much dislike Avienda's visions as well The Count Send a noteboard - 20/01/2011 01:39:37 AM
It's the worst possible timing for a plot twist like that. I guess BS and any editors involved had to leave it in because it's part of RJ's posthumous instruction, but I still disagree.

If you think about it from the viewpoint of an editor: you've been building up suspense and excitement for over 20 f*#@ing years about one single Last Battle. For 12 books plus a prequel you've been building up to this single climax. The fans are on the edge of their seats because its about to happen. Then a little before the grand finale, you give a vision of the future that essentially makes the Last Battle irrelevant?!?!?!

Of course we assume that the vision is only a projected possibility, not set in stone. But that's not how it feels when you read it. The way it's written makes the reader feel like the Last Battle is already a done deal and doesn't matter anymore--and even when the Last Battle does happen, it doesn't matter anymore because the future sucks almost as bad.

If I had written it I would have either made very very very clear that this was only a vague possibility which should be avoided, or I would have put it at the end of the Last Battle.

Sigh. I feel better after venting :)

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Avienda's viewing and the Fields of Merrilor (spoilers) saidarisnowtainted - 28/12/2010 06:21:05 PM 3279 Views
Timing moratcorlm - 28/12/2010 06:43:32 PM 1906 Views
Indeed...the bleak future makes the Last Battle almost an anti-climax... Shannow - 28/12/2010 08:20:31 PM 1995 Views
And yet, the only places of relative peace and shelter right now are Seanchan controlled lands. everynametaken - 29/12/2010 03:21:37 AM 1548 Views
+1. Lord Haart - 29/12/2010 04:04:02 AM 1345 Views
Re: +1. Lo'oris - 07/01/2011 05:25:23 PM 1227 Views
Those who would give up permanent liberty in exchange for temporary security, deserve neither.. Shannow - 29/12/2010 10:27:35 AM 1351 Views
Says the person defending monarchies and oligarchies, some of them quite brutal. moratcorlm - 29/12/2010 02:12:56 PM 1320 Views
LoL. What is this "POV trap" that people refer to so often to make a point? Shannow - 29/12/2010 10:00:11 PM 1470 Views
Re: LoL. What is this "POV trap" that people refer to so often to make a point? moratcorlm - 29/12/2010 10:44:12 PM 1314 Views
Why do you have this urge to overcomplicate something as simple as personal likes and dislikes? Shannow - 30/12/2010 10:00:43 AM 1263 Views
Re: Why do you have this urge to overcomplicate something as simple as personal likes and dislikes? Lo'oris - 07/01/2011 05:28:03 PM 1218 Views
"romantic characteristics" Variant - 07/01/2011 06:06:31 AM 1188 Views
Re: "romantic characteristics" Lo'oris - 07/01/2011 05:30:33 PM 1215 Views
Don't blame the Seanchan, The Aiel made an excuse to start a war. Variant - 08/01/2011 09:20:36 AM 1621 Views
Re: Those who would give up permanent liberty in exchange for temporary security, deserve neither.. Zeratul - 29/12/2010 03:06:16 PM 1444 Views
Exactly. *NM* everynametaken - 30/12/2010 02:50:07 AM 850 Views
They are pretty close to evil. Slavery being the big thing, but the crushing social scale is far darius_sedai - 31/12/2010 06:45:59 PM 1170 Views
The Aiel sold slaves to Shara, does that make them evil? No society in Randland is without flaws. Variant - 07/01/2011 05:10:32 AM 1421 Views
you are missing my point darius_sedai - 07/01/2011 11:31:11 PM 1296 Views
We haven't had a POV from a NON-high-ranking Seanchan moratcorlm - 08/01/2011 03:13:26 AM 24799 Views
As to Bethamin ... darius_sedai - 20/01/2011 04:46:36 PM 1285 Views
No, you're missing the point. Benevolence is irrelevant. Variant - 08/01/2011 09:48:51 AM 1201 Views
Re: No, you're missing the point. Benevolence is irrelevant. Lo'oris - 08/01/2011 10:04:18 AM 1253 Views
Well the Westlands aren't exactly modern Europe or USA either Lohikaarme - 08/01/2011 11:00:31 AM 1206 Views
Re: Well the Westlands aren't exactly modern Europe or USA either Lo'oris - 09/01/2011 02:08:17 AM 1198 Views
That's funny, I'd choose modern day China in a second. Variant - 09/01/2011 06:37:24 AM 1185 Views
Hong Kong is not an accurate representation of the rest of Modern China darius_sedai - 20/01/2011 04:50:20 PM 1178 Views
~sigh~ Cosmopolitan China is different than Rural China Variant - 21/01/2011 01:00:17 AM 1180 Views
well there is also the fact that Hong Kong has different "rules" than even other major darius_sedai - 21/01/2011 05:38:46 PM 1231 Views
I'm not just talking about Hong Kong though... Variant - 22/01/2011 09:36:20 AM 1253 Views
I've traveled extensively darius_sedai - 22/01/2011 06:02:47 PM 1189 Views
You've traveled to China extensively? Variant - 22/01/2011 07:41:30 PM 1256 Views
the quesetion you responded too is "would you rather live in Medieval Europe of Modern China darius_sedai - 22/01/2011 09:47:24 PM 1444 Views
I responded, "I"d choose modern day china in a second" Variant - 22/01/2011 10:29:46 PM 1265 Views
Actually, China is changing. Variant - 09/01/2011 06:32:58 AM 1228 Views
true to a point, yet China has been under one form or another of totalitarian rule for darius_sedai - 20/01/2011 04:57:37 PM 1201 Views
So? Variant - 21/01/2011 01:20:18 AM 1311 Views
Double post *NM* Variant - 21/01/2011 01:21:10 AM 671 Views
It's the comparative to the Seanchan empire I'm really getting at here, not saying China isn't darius_sedai - 21/01/2011 05:43:56 PM 1287 Views
I don't even know why China was brought up in the first place ~shrugs~ Variant - 22/01/2011 10:04:59 AM 1132 Views
I totally agree with your last point, which is why I think RJ set them up to be the "Evil Empire" darius_sedai - 22/01/2011 06:12:46 PM 1215 Views
They're not entirely evil though, and RJ has written them that way Variant - 22/01/2011 08:02:22 PM 1194 Views
not so much darius_sedai - 22/01/2011 09:54:38 PM 1162 Views
Your example is absurd. Variant - 22/01/2011 10:53:06 PM 1105 Views
Ah yes, the "Jews can kill you with their minds" argument. *NM* moratcorlm - 23/01/2011 05:32:23 PM 672 Views
Please. Like anyone else in Randland is really free? everynametaken - 30/12/2010 02:47:27 AM 1195 Views
Andor is rather progressive... Allowing the common people to speak their minds darius_sedai - 31/12/2010 06:35:29 PM 1152 Views
Andor is lionized as a huge exception to the general rule moratcorlm - 31/12/2010 11:57:30 PM 1261 Views
Re: Andor is rather progressive... Allowing the common people to speak their minds Zeratul - 01/01/2011 12:18:46 AM 1275 Views
Seanchan is much closer to the Chinese culture. Which has never established democracy darius_sedai - 01/01/2011 06:12:10 AM 1606 Views
Prussia (and with it Germany) would never have changed to democracy if not forced to Voscaia Sedai - 01/01/2011 12:23:34 PM 1119 Views
too easy: they did not have to fight the Shadow, they don't even know shadowspawn really exist as of *NM* Lo'oris - 29/12/2010 02:44:18 PM 712 Views
It goes beyond the channelers. The Seanchan control the population darius_sedai - 31/12/2010 06:00:57 PM 1155 Views
Re: It goes beyond the channelers. The Seanchan control the population moratcorlm - 01/01/2011 10:58:22 PM 1276 Views
Word, even the Tinkers are gathering and migrating to Seanchan held lands in the south. *NM* Variant - 07/01/2011 05:21:09 AM 637 Views
Maybe they're a remnant of humanity Sidious - 29/12/2010 04:41:40 AM 1357 Views
Re: Maybe they're a remnant of humanity moratcorlm - 29/12/2010 02:17:33 PM 1310 Views
Couple of flaws here darius_sedai - 31/12/2010 06:54:13 PM 1186 Views
You are right, here is a better analogy dadof5 - 03/01/2011 06:23:16 PM 1188 Views
Even Hitler didn't think Jews could kill people with their minds moratcorlm - 03/01/2011 07:22:09 PM 1239 Views
It depends on Rand's sperm I guess Skeeve the Great - 28/12/2010 08:27:59 PM 1286 Views
No, the Seanchan started it, by wanting to conquer the rest of the world... Shannow - 28/12/2010 08:31:27 PM 1367 Views
Re: No, the Seanchan started it, by wanting to conquer the rest of the world... Skeeve the Great - 28/12/2010 08:50:28 PM 1243 Views
Re: No, the Seanchan started it, by wanting to conquer the rest of the world... saidarisnowtainted - 30/12/2010 03:56:55 PM 1286 Views
Because the Aiel are savages who have no place in a modern world moratcorlm - 28/12/2010 11:15:23 PM 1349 Views
Re: No, the Seanchan started it, by wanting to conquer the rest of the world... saidarisnowtainted - 30/12/2010 04:01:00 PM 1300 Views
Re: It depends on Rand's sperm I guess Ashaman_Luc - 28/12/2010 11:02:34 PM 1228 Views
VoG = Veins of Gold. The chapter at the end of TGS where Rand becomes balanced. *NM* Lord Haart - 29/12/2010 06:56:38 AM 2103 Views
Re: It depends on Rand's sperm I guess Sidious - 29/12/2010 04:37:04 AM 1238 Views
Re: It depends on Rand's sperm I guess Skeeve the Great - 29/12/2010 02:37:12 PM 1242 Views
Re: It depends on Rand's sperm I guess saidarisnowtainted - 30/12/2010 04:02:31 PM 1480 Views
timeline in the books Ava - 29/12/2010 03:34:45 PM 1309 Views
Re: timeline in the books moratcorlm - 29/12/2010 05:29:11 PM 1323 Views
Re: timeline in the books Ava - 31/12/2010 01:18:32 PM 1209 Views
yes thousands and thousands AFTER hundreds of years. these kids were probably slowing since birth. Onarishma - 03/01/2011 08:19:22 PM 1285 Views
Re: yes thousands and thousands AFTER hundreds of years. Ava - 04/01/2011 12:21:59 PM 1128 Views
your premise is that first generation applies to anyone but them. Onarishma - 10/01/2011 09:25:02 PM 1154 Views
Aviendha + Mat (and Seta and Bethamin) are the best hopes. The Angry Druid - 09/01/2011 01:45:00 AM 1256 Views
From a plot standpoint I very much dislike Avienda's visions as well The Count - 20/01/2011 01:39:37 AM 1688 Views
Problem is, the fate of post-TG Randland depends on the viewing being heeded before TG. *NM* Lord Haart - 20/01/2011 10:07:15 AM 615 Views
The Light's victory in the Last Battle was already a foregone conclusion ranagrande - 21/01/2011 03:48:54 PM 1132 Views
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