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No, you're missing the point. Benevolence is irrelevant. Variant Send a noteboard - 08/01/2011 09:48:51 AM
the Seanchan only have the appearance of happy. In fact every character from Seanchan we've interacted with has been just as trained to play the role of happy citizen as they are to accept the "fact" that damane deserve/must to be collared. Look at the POVs from even the high ranking Seanchan ... underneath the facade they are terrified that they will be taken by the Seekers, or assassinated or in some other way have their life or freedom stripped away.

The government of Seanchan is a brutal dictatorship that demands "happiness" of it's citizens. There is nothing benevolent about their system.


The Romans didn't rule Europe for over 600 years because they were benevolent. They were great organizers, administrators, and engineers. And they were stubborn. The Seanchan are like that. Frankly, I have expected the Seanchan to conquer Randland completely for a long time now. After they do, things won't stay the same under their rule forever. The notion of individual value that much of Randland seems to hold to will still exist, and gradually percolate upward through the society. Eventually, man's desire for freedom will overcome and the bad aspects of Seanchan society will fade away into something better. Notice that in the first, farthest in the future (several hundred years at least, from the look of it), visions Avi gets, they aren't Seanchan (or the Raven Empire) anymore, at least not as we know them now. They'll continue to evolve.

Would I personally prefer for the Aiel to turn out great and the continent to not fall to the Seanchan? ~shrugs~ Sure

In the real world, Carthage and her allies would have preferred for Rome to not win the Punic Wars. Or for Alexander to not defeat the Persians. Or for the Hans to not win against the other tribes in early China. Or for the Aztecs to not beat the local tribes. Or for the Conquisators to not beat the Aztecs in turn. Or whatever.

Point is, Life ain't fair. In the Randland world, it's very possible that the Pattern (which is neither good nor evil, and shows no favorites....it just IS) spun out the Dashain Aiel specifically so they could be forged into the modern Aiel specifically so they could help the Dragon Reborn win the Last Battle. Assuming the Last Battle goes well, the Aiel's purpose in the pattern will be finished, so it would then follow that they'll be woven out in favor of the next needed people. Does that suck for them? Sure. But ask yourself how a semi-nomadic, warrior-based society is really going to contribute to the obvious development of science, technology, and consolidation that's clearly in the works, and that's needed in order for the next Age of Legends to come to pass in a however many thousand years. I'm thinking not too much. The Seanchan, with their stability, organizational and beaurocratic expertise, focus on law and order, tenacity, and code of justice (twisted though it may be in some ways, it is still structured and, apparently, well-enforced without favoritism) are a much better force to facilitate that.
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Avienda's viewing and the Fields of Merrilor (spoilers) saidarisnowtainted - 28/12/2010 06:21:05 PM 3374 Views
Timing moratcorlm - 28/12/2010 06:43:32 PM 1995 Views
Indeed...the bleak future makes the Last Battle almost an anti-climax... Shannow - 28/12/2010 08:20:31 PM 2081 Views
And yet, the only places of relative peace and shelter right now are Seanchan controlled lands. everynametaken - 29/12/2010 03:21:37 AM 1643 Views
+1. Lord Haart - 29/12/2010 04:04:02 AM 1444 Views
Re: +1. Lo'oris - 07/01/2011 05:25:23 PM 1312 Views
Those who would give up permanent liberty in exchange for temporary security, deserve neither.. Shannow - 29/12/2010 10:27:35 AM 1429 Views
Says the person defending monarchies and oligarchies, some of them quite brutal. moratcorlm - 29/12/2010 02:12:56 PM 1405 Views
LoL. What is this "POV trap" that people refer to so often to make a point? Shannow - 29/12/2010 10:00:11 PM 1606 Views
Re: LoL. What is this "POV trap" that people refer to so often to make a point? moratcorlm - 29/12/2010 10:44:12 PM 1412 Views
Why do you have this urge to overcomplicate something as simple as personal likes and dislikes? Shannow - 30/12/2010 10:00:43 AM 1351 Views
Re: Why do you have this urge to overcomplicate something as simple as personal likes and dislikes? Lo'oris - 07/01/2011 05:28:03 PM 1297 Views
"romantic characteristics" Variant - 07/01/2011 06:06:31 AM 1267 Views
Re: "romantic characteristics" Lo'oris - 07/01/2011 05:30:33 PM 1302 Views
Don't blame the Seanchan, The Aiel made an excuse to start a war. Variant - 08/01/2011 09:20:36 AM 1735 Views
Re: Those who would give up permanent liberty in exchange for temporary security, deserve neither.. Zeratul - 29/12/2010 03:06:16 PM 1524 Views
Exactly. *NM* everynametaken - 30/12/2010 02:50:07 AM 892 Views
They are pretty close to evil. Slavery being the big thing, but the crushing social scale is far darius_sedai - 31/12/2010 06:45:59 PM 1252 Views
The Aiel sold slaves to Shara, does that make them evil? No society in Randland is without flaws. Variant - 07/01/2011 05:10:32 AM 1535 Views
you are missing my point darius_sedai - 07/01/2011 11:31:11 PM 1401 Views
We haven't had a POV from a NON-high-ranking Seanchan moratcorlm - 08/01/2011 03:13:26 AM 24903 Views
As to Bethamin ... darius_sedai - 20/01/2011 04:46:36 PM 1368 Views
No, you're missing the point. Benevolence is irrelevant. Variant - 08/01/2011 09:48:51 AM 1291 Views
Re: No, you're missing the point. Benevolence is irrelevant. Lo'oris - 08/01/2011 10:04:18 AM 1339 Views
Well the Westlands aren't exactly modern Europe or USA either Lohikaarme - 08/01/2011 11:00:31 AM 1317 Views
Re: Well the Westlands aren't exactly modern Europe or USA either Lo'oris - 09/01/2011 02:08:17 AM 1300 Views
That's funny, I'd choose modern day China in a second. Variant - 09/01/2011 06:37:24 AM 1282 Views
Hong Kong is not an accurate representation of the rest of Modern China darius_sedai - 20/01/2011 04:50:20 PM 1267 Views
~sigh~ Cosmopolitan China is different than Rural China Variant - 21/01/2011 01:00:17 AM 1229 Views
well there is also the fact that Hong Kong has different "rules" than even other major darius_sedai - 21/01/2011 05:38:46 PM 1326 Views
I'm not just talking about Hong Kong though... Variant - 22/01/2011 09:36:20 AM 1334 Views
I've traveled extensively darius_sedai - 22/01/2011 06:02:47 PM 1277 Views
You've traveled to China extensively? Variant - 22/01/2011 07:41:30 PM 1339 Views
the quesetion you responded too is "would you rather live in Medieval Europe of Modern China darius_sedai - 22/01/2011 09:47:24 PM 1530 Views
I responded, "I"d choose modern day china in a second" Variant - 22/01/2011 10:29:46 PM 1365 Views
Actually, China is changing. Variant - 09/01/2011 06:32:58 AM 1314 Views
true to a point, yet China has been under one form or another of totalitarian rule for darius_sedai - 20/01/2011 04:57:37 PM 1290 Views
So? Variant - 21/01/2011 01:20:18 AM 1396 Views
Double post *NM* Variant - 21/01/2011 01:21:10 AM 710 Views
It's the comparative to the Seanchan empire I'm really getting at here, not saying China isn't darius_sedai - 21/01/2011 05:43:56 PM 1377 Views
I don't even know why China was brought up in the first place ~shrugs~ Variant - 22/01/2011 10:04:59 AM 1226 Views
I totally agree with your last point, which is why I think RJ set them up to be the "Evil Empire" darius_sedai - 22/01/2011 06:12:46 PM 1306 Views
They're not entirely evil though, and RJ has written them that way Variant - 22/01/2011 08:02:22 PM 1277 Views
not so much darius_sedai - 22/01/2011 09:54:38 PM 1261 Views
Your example is absurd. Variant - 22/01/2011 10:53:06 PM 1197 Views
Ah yes, the "Jews can kill you with their minds" argument. *NM* moratcorlm - 23/01/2011 05:32:23 PM 711 Views
Please. Like anyone else in Randland is really free? everynametaken - 30/12/2010 02:47:27 AM 1288 Views
Andor is rather progressive... Allowing the common people to speak their minds darius_sedai - 31/12/2010 06:35:29 PM 1238 Views
Andor is lionized as a huge exception to the general rule moratcorlm - 31/12/2010 11:57:30 PM 1339 Views
Re: Andor is rather progressive... Allowing the common people to speak their minds Zeratul - 01/01/2011 12:18:46 AM 1359 Views
Seanchan is much closer to the Chinese culture. Which has never established democracy darius_sedai - 01/01/2011 06:12:10 AM 1693 Views
Prussia (and with it Germany) would never have changed to democracy if not forced to Voscaia Sedai - 01/01/2011 12:23:34 PM 1209 Views
too easy: they did not have to fight the Shadow, they don't even know shadowspawn really exist as of *NM* Lo'oris - 29/12/2010 02:44:18 PM 756 Views
It goes beyond the channelers. The Seanchan control the population darius_sedai - 31/12/2010 06:00:57 PM 1232 Views
Re: It goes beyond the channelers. The Seanchan control the population moratcorlm - 01/01/2011 10:58:22 PM 1358 Views
Word, even the Tinkers are gathering and migrating to Seanchan held lands in the south. *NM* Variant - 07/01/2011 05:21:09 AM 672 Views
Maybe they're a remnant of humanity Sidious - 29/12/2010 04:41:40 AM 1445 Views
Re: Maybe they're a remnant of humanity moratcorlm - 29/12/2010 02:17:33 PM 1392 Views
Couple of flaws here darius_sedai - 31/12/2010 06:54:13 PM 1267 Views
You are right, here is a better analogy dadof5 - 03/01/2011 06:23:16 PM 1274 Views
Even Hitler didn't think Jews could kill people with their minds moratcorlm - 03/01/2011 07:22:09 PM 1334 Views
It depends on Rand's sperm I guess Skeeve the Great - 28/12/2010 08:27:59 PM 1362 Views
No, the Seanchan started it, by wanting to conquer the rest of the world... Shannow - 28/12/2010 08:31:27 PM 1448 Views
Re: No, the Seanchan started it, by wanting to conquer the rest of the world... Skeeve the Great - 28/12/2010 08:50:28 PM 1334 Views
Re: No, the Seanchan started it, by wanting to conquer the rest of the world... saidarisnowtainted - 30/12/2010 03:56:55 PM 1374 Views
Because the Aiel are savages who have no place in a modern world moratcorlm - 28/12/2010 11:15:23 PM 1439 Views
Re: No, the Seanchan started it, by wanting to conquer the rest of the world... saidarisnowtainted - 30/12/2010 04:01:00 PM 1388 Views
Re: It depends on Rand's sperm I guess Ashaman_Luc - 28/12/2010 11:02:34 PM 1318 Views
VoG = Veins of Gold. The chapter at the end of TGS where Rand becomes balanced. *NM* Lord Haart - 29/12/2010 06:56:38 AM 2147 Views
Re: It depends on Rand's sperm I guess Sidious - 29/12/2010 04:37:04 AM 1319 Views
Re: It depends on Rand's sperm I guess Skeeve the Great - 29/12/2010 02:37:12 PM 1322 Views
Re: It depends on Rand's sperm I guess saidarisnowtainted - 30/12/2010 04:02:31 PM 1572 Views
timeline in the books Ava - 29/12/2010 03:34:45 PM 1387 Views
Re: timeline in the books moratcorlm - 29/12/2010 05:29:11 PM 1399 Views
Re: timeline in the books Ava - 31/12/2010 01:18:32 PM 1288 Views
yes thousands and thousands AFTER hundreds of years. these kids were probably slowing since birth. Onarishma - 03/01/2011 08:19:22 PM 1374 Views
Re: yes thousands and thousands AFTER hundreds of years. Ava - 04/01/2011 12:21:59 PM 1200 Views
your premise is that first generation applies to anyone but them. Onarishma - 10/01/2011 09:25:02 PM 1239 Views
Aviendha + Mat (and Seta and Bethamin) are the best hopes. The Angry Druid - 09/01/2011 01:45:00 AM 1353 Views
From a plot standpoint I very much dislike Avienda's visions as well The Count - 20/01/2011 01:39:37 AM 1772 Views
Problem is, the fate of post-TG Randland depends on the viewing being heeded before TG. *NM* Lord Haart - 20/01/2011 10:07:15 AM 648 Views
The Light's victory in the Last Battle was already a foregone conclusion ranagrande - 21/01/2011 03:48:54 PM 1206 Views
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