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No, you're missing the point. Benevolence is irrelevant. Variant Send a noteboard - 08/01/2011 09:48:51 AM
the Seanchan only have the appearance of happy. In fact every character from Seanchan we've interacted with has been just as trained to play the role of happy citizen as they are to accept the "fact" that damane deserve/must to be collared. Look at the POVs from even the high ranking Seanchan ... underneath the facade they are terrified that they will be taken by the Seekers, or assassinated or in some other way have their life or freedom stripped away.

The government of Seanchan is a brutal dictatorship that demands "happiness" of it's citizens. There is nothing benevolent about their system.


The Romans didn't rule Europe for over 600 years because they were benevolent. They were great organizers, administrators, and engineers. And they were stubborn. The Seanchan are like that. Frankly, I have expected the Seanchan to conquer Randland completely for a long time now. After they do, things won't stay the same under their rule forever. The notion of individual value that much of Randland seems to hold to will still exist, and gradually percolate upward through the society. Eventually, man's desire for freedom will overcome and the bad aspects of Seanchan society will fade away into something better. Notice that in the first, farthest in the future (several hundred years at least, from the look of it), visions Avi gets, they aren't Seanchan (or the Raven Empire) anymore, at least not as we know them now. They'll continue to evolve.

Would I personally prefer for the Aiel to turn out great and the continent to not fall to the Seanchan? ~shrugs~ Sure

In the real world, Carthage and her allies would have preferred for Rome to not win the Punic Wars. Or for Alexander to not defeat the Persians. Or for the Hans to not win against the other tribes in early China. Or for the Aztecs to not beat the local tribes. Or for the Conquisators to not beat the Aztecs in turn. Or whatever.

Point is, Life ain't fair. In the Randland world, it's very possible that the Pattern (which is neither good nor evil, and shows no favorites....it just IS) spun out the Dashain Aiel specifically so they could be forged into the modern Aiel specifically so they could help the Dragon Reborn win the Last Battle. Assuming the Last Battle goes well, the Aiel's purpose in the pattern will be finished, so it would then follow that they'll be woven out in favor of the next needed people. Does that suck for them? Sure. But ask yourself how a semi-nomadic, warrior-based society is really going to contribute to the obvious development of science, technology, and consolidation that's clearly in the works, and that's needed in order for the next Age of Legends to come to pass in a however many thousand years. I'm thinking not too much. The Seanchan, with their stability, organizational and beaurocratic expertise, focus on law and order, tenacity, and code of justice (twisted though it may be in some ways, it is still structured and, apparently, well-enforced without favoritism) are a much better force to facilitate that.
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Avienda's viewing and the Fields of Merrilor (spoilers) saidarisnowtainted - 28/12/2010 06:21:05 PM 3279 Views
Timing moratcorlm - 28/12/2010 06:43:32 PM 1906 Views
Indeed...the bleak future makes the Last Battle almost an anti-climax... Shannow - 28/12/2010 08:20:31 PM 1995 Views
And yet, the only places of relative peace and shelter right now are Seanchan controlled lands. everynametaken - 29/12/2010 03:21:37 AM 1548 Views
+1. Lord Haart - 29/12/2010 04:04:02 AM 1343 Views
Re: +1. Lo'oris - 07/01/2011 05:25:23 PM 1227 Views
Those who would give up permanent liberty in exchange for temporary security, deserve neither.. Shannow - 29/12/2010 10:27:35 AM 1351 Views
Says the person defending monarchies and oligarchies, some of them quite brutal. moratcorlm - 29/12/2010 02:12:56 PM 1320 Views
LoL. What is this "POV trap" that people refer to so often to make a point? Shannow - 29/12/2010 10:00:11 PM 1470 Views
Re: LoL. What is this "POV trap" that people refer to so often to make a point? moratcorlm - 29/12/2010 10:44:12 PM 1314 Views
Why do you have this urge to overcomplicate something as simple as personal likes and dislikes? Shannow - 30/12/2010 10:00:43 AM 1263 Views
Re: Why do you have this urge to overcomplicate something as simple as personal likes and dislikes? Lo'oris - 07/01/2011 05:28:03 PM 1216 Views
"romantic characteristics" Variant - 07/01/2011 06:06:31 AM 1188 Views
Re: "romantic characteristics" Lo'oris - 07/01/2011 05:30:33 PM 1214 Views
Don't blame the Seanchan, The Aiel made an excuse to start a war. Variant - 08/01/2011 09:20:36 AM 1621 Views
Re: Those who would give up permanent liberty in exchange for temporary security, deserve neither.. Zeratul - 29/12/2010 03:06:16 PM 1444 Views
Exactly. *NM* everynametaken - 30/12/2010 02:50:07 AM 850 Views
They are pretty close to evil. Slavery being the big thing, but the crushing social scale is far darius_sedai - 31/12/2010 06:45:59 PM 1170 Views
The Aiel sold slaves to Shara, does that make them evil? No society in Randland is without flaws. Variant - 07/01/2011 05:10:32 AM 1421 Views
you are missing my point darius_sedai - 07/01/2011 11:31:11 PM 1296 Views
We haven't had a POV from a NON-high-ranking Seanchan moratcorlm - 08/01/2011 03:13:26 AM 24799 Views
As to Bethamin ... darius_sedai - 20/01/2011 04:46:36 PM 1285 Views
No, you're missing the point. Benevolence is irrelevant. Variant - 08/01/2011 09:48:51 AM 1201 Views
Re: No, you're missing the point. Benevolence is irrelevant. Lo'oris - 08/01/2011 10:04:18 AM 1252 Views
Well the Westlands aren't exactly modern Europe or USA either Lohikaarme - 08/01/2011 11:00:31 AM 1205 Views
Re: Well the Westlands aren't exactly modern Europe or USA either Lo'oris - 09/01/2011 02:08:17 AM 1198 Views
That's funny, I'd choose modern day China in a second. Variant - 09/01/2011 06:37:24 AM 1185 Views
Hong Kong is not an accurate representation of the rest of Modern China darius_sedai - 20/01/2011 04:50:20 PM 1178 Views
~sigh~ Cosmopolitan China is different than Rural China Variant - 21/01/2011 01:00:17 AM 1180 Views
well there is also the fact that Hong Kong has different "rules" than even other major darius_sedai - 21/01/2011 05:38:46 PM 1231 Views
I'm not just talking about Hong Kong though... Variant - 22/01/2011 09:36:20 AM 1253 Views
I've traveled extensively darius_sedai - 22/01/2011 06:02:47 PM 1189 Views
You've traveled to China extensively? Variant - 22/01/2011 07:41:30 PM 1256 Views
the quesetion you responded too is "would you rather live in Medieval Europe of Modern China darius_sedai - 22/01/2011 09:47:24 PM 1443 Views
I responded, "I"d choose modern day china in a second" Variant - 22/01/2011 10:29:46 PM 1265 Views
Actually, China is changing. Variant - 09/01/2011 06:32:58 AM 1226 Views
true to a point, yet China has been under one form or another of totalitarian rule for darius_sedai - 20/01/2011 04:57:37 PM 1201 Views
So? Variant - 21/01/2011 01:20:18 AM 1311 Views
Double post *NM* Variant - 21/01/2011 01:21:10 AM 671 Views
It's the comparative to the Seanchan empire I'm really getting at here, not saying China isn't darius_sedai - 21/01/2011 05:43:56 PM 1287 Views
I don't even know why China was brought up in the first place ~shrugs~ Variant - 22/01/2011 10:04:59 AM 1132 Views
I totally agree with your last point, which is why I think RJ set them up to be the "Evil Empire" darius_sedai - 22/01/2011 06:12:46 PM 1215 Views
They're not entirely evil though, and RJ has written them that way Variant - 22/01/2011 08:02:22 PM 1194 Views
not so much darius_sedai - 22/01/2011 09:54:38 PM 1162 Views
Your example is absurd. Variant - 22/01/2011 10:53:06 PM 1105 Views
Ah yes, the "Jews can kill you with their minds" argument. *NM* moratcorlm - 23/01/2011 05:32:23 PM 672 Views
Please. Like anyone else in Randland is really free? everynametaken - 30/12/2010 02:47:27 AM 1195 Views
Andor is rather progressive... Allowing the common people to speak their minds darius_sedai - 31/12/2010 06:35:29 PM 1152 Views
Andor is lionized as a huge exception to the general rule moratcorlm - 31/12/2010 11:57:30 PM 1260 Views
Re: Andor is rather progressive... Allowing the common people to speak their minds Zeratul - 01/01/2011 12:18:46 AM 1274 Views
Seanchan is much closer to the Chinese culture. Which has never established democracy darius_sedai - 01/01/2011 06:12:10 AM 1606 Views
Prussia (and with it Germany) would never have changed to democracy if not forced to Voscaia Sedai - 01/01/2011 12:23:34 PM 1119 Views
too easy: they did not have to fight the Shadow, they don't even know shadowspawn really exist as of *NM* Lo'oris - 29/12/2010 02:44:18 PM 712 Views
It goes beyond the channelers. The Seanchan control the population darius_sedai - 31/12/2010 06:00:57 PM 1154 Views
Re: It goes beyond the channelers. The Seanchan control the population moratcorlm - 01/01/2011 10:58:22 PM 1276 Views
Word, even the Tinkers are gathering and migrating to Seanchan held lands in the south. *NM* Variant - 07/01/2011 05:21:09 AM 637 Views
Maybe they're a remnant of humanity Sidious - 29/12/2010 04:41:40 AM 1357 Views
Re: Maybe they're a remnant of humanity moratcorlm - 29/12/2010 02:17:33 PM 1310 Views
Couple of flaws here darius_sedai - 31/12/2010 06:54:13 PM 1186 Views
You are right, here is a better analogy dadof5 - 03/01/2011 06:23:16 PM 1188 Views
Even Hitler didn't think Jews could kill people with their minds moratcorlm - 03/01/2011 07:22:09 PM 1237 Views
It depends on Rand's sperm I guess Skeeve the Great - 28/12/2010 08:27:59 PM 1286 Views
No, the Seanchan started it, by wanting to conquer the rest of the world... Shannow - 28/12/2010 08:31:27 PM 1367 Views
Re: No, the Seanchan started it, by wanting to conquer the rest of the world... Skeeve the Great - 28/12/2010 08:50:28 PM 1243 Views
Re: No, the Seanchan started it, by wanting to conquer the rest of the world... saidarisnowtainted - 30/12/2010 03:56:55 PM 1286 Views
Because the Aiel are savages who have no place in a modern world moratcorlm - 28/12/2010 11:15:23 PM 1347 Views
Re: No, the Seanchan started it, by wanting to conquer the rest of the world... saidarisnowtainted - 30/12/2010 04:01:00 PM 1300 Views
Re: It depends on Rand's sperm I guess Ashaman_Luc - 28/12/2010 11:02:34 PM 1228 Views
VoG = Veins of Gold. The chapter at the end of TGS where Rand becomes balanced. *NM* Lord Haart - 29/12/2010 06:56:38 AM 2103 Views
Re: It depends on Rand's sperm I guess Sidious - 29/12/2010 04:37:04 AM 1238 Views
Re: It depends on Rand's sperm I guess Skeeve the Great - 29/12/2010 02:37:12 PM 1242 Views
Re: It depends on Rand's sperm I guess saidarisnowtainted - 30/12/2010 04:02:31 PM 1480 Views
timeline in the books Ava - 29/12/2010 03:34:45 PM 1309 Views
Re: timeline in the books moratcorlm - 29/12/2010 05:29:11 PM 1323 Views
Re: timeline in the books Ava - 31/12/2010 01:18:32 PM 1209 Views
yes thousands and thousands AFTER hundreds of years. these kids were probably slowing since birth. Onarishma - 03/01/2011 08:19:22 PM 1285 Views
Re: yes thousands and thousands AFTER hundreds of years. Ava - 04/01/2011 12:21:59 PM 1128 Views
your premise is that first generation applies to anyone but them. Onarishma - 10/01/2011 09:25:02 PM 1154 Views
Aviendha + Mat (and Seta and Bethamin) are the best hopes. The Angry Druid - 09/01/2011 01:45:00 AM 1254 Views
From a plot standpoint I very much dislike Avienda's visions as well The Count - 20/01/2011 01:39:37 AM 1686 Views
Problem is, the fate of post-TG Randland depends on the viewing being heeded before TG. *NM* Lord Haart - 20/01/2011 10:07:15 AM 615 Views
The Light's victory in the Last Battle was already a foregone conclusion ranagrande - 21/01/2011 03:48:54 PM 1130 Views
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