Small correction - It has not been established that Alivia is stronger than Cyndane unaided...
Shannow Send a noteboard - 02/01/2011 06:02:53 PM
Of course there is always the 'luck of the dice' chance, but other than that it really makes little sense that Cyndane was able to defeat Alivia so handily.
Let's look at some of the facts.
1) Alivia was stronger than Cyndane, likely even without her angreal.
2) Alivia had a fairly powerful angreal which was multiplying her strength by at least 3 times, likely maybe 4-5 times or more. Cyndane had NO angreal.
3) Alivia had a ter'angreal to unravel any weaves directed against her directly (similar to Mat's) where she need not even spare the effort to slice it. So the possibility of Cyndane shielding her (even never mind the angreal) would be virtually impossible.
4) Alivia frightens Nynaeve with her strength, and Nynaeve has come face to face with several Forsaken.
5) Alivia is approx 400 years old, likely older than Cyndane ie Lanfear was and since the age of 12 or 13 she has been trained solely to be used as a weapon. Cyndane may know more weaves, but no reason to believe she knows more battle weaves.
6) Alivia commented that The Asha'man may be called weapons, but she was confident that she was far, far more lethal of a weapon.
Basically between her 388 years of battle experience, her ter'angreal and her quite powerful angreal it should have been like Rand dealing with Damer Flinn, ie: No Contest. Alivia should have actually been able to shield her quite easily.
Besides luck, and RJ just making Cyndane win how can you explain how Alivia came off the big loser in that fight?
Let's look at some of the facts.
1) Alivia was stronger than Cyndane, likely even without her angreal.
2) Alivia had a fairly powerful angreal which was multiplying her strength by at least 3 times, likely maybe 4-5 times or more. Cyndane had NO angreal.
3) Alivia had a ter'angreal to unravel any weaves directed against her directly (similar to Mat's) where she need not even spare the effort to slice it. So the possibility of Cyndane shielding her (even never mind the angreal) would be virtually impossible.
4) Alivia frightens Nynaeve with her strength, and Nynaeve has come face to face with several Forsaken.
5) Alivia is approx 400 years old, likely older than Cyndane ie Lanfear was and since the age of 12 or 13 she has been trained solely to be used as a weapon. Cyndane may know more weaves, but no reason to believe she knows more battle weaves.
6) Alivia commented that The Asha'man may be called weapons, but she was confident that she was far, far more lethal of a weapon.
Basically between her 388 years of battle experience, her ter'angreal and her quite powerful angreal it should have been like Rand dealing with Damer Flinn, ie: No Contest. Alivia should have actually been able to shield her quite easily.
Besides luck, and RJ just making Cyndane win how can you explain how Alivia came off the big loser in that fight?
I agree with the point you are making in that it seems unlikely that Cyndane should have been able to survive against someone 3 or 4 times her strength (with the bracelet angreal amplifying Alivia's strength).
The only error I would like to point out is where you stated that Alivia is stronger than Cyndane even without an angreal. This has not been established.
Which of Alivia or Cyndane is the stronger channeler is still unknown. Cyndane might well be stronger than Alivia, seeing as she is stronger than any other female Forsaken barring Lanfear.
Either way, the difference will most likely not be great, and it would not have affected the outcome of a battle where Alivia had an angreal multiplying her strength by 3 or 4 times.
But since the strength rankings are rather important to me, I just wanted to point this out.
We know there are 6 female channelers stronger than Nynaeve. Listing only these top 7 women, the strength ranking might well be:
Lanfear
Cyndane
Alivia
Graendal/Sharina
Semirhage/Nynaeve/Talaan
Mesaana
Moghedien
Note that while Sanderson was certain of Nynaeve's "seventh place" (maybe a symbolic position picked by RJ), he seemed uncertain about the identities of the women above Nynaeve.
His IMPRESSION was that Nynaeve was stronger than Semirhage, but he was not 100% sure of this. Additionally, he was not even aware that Cyndane was one of these 6 women, although she without question is stronger than Nynaeve.
What we know for sure, is that RJ decided that there would be precisely 6 women stronger than Nynaeve. Who they are exactly is still uncertain.
Cyndane is stronger than Graendal, (we don't know how much stronger), and might well be stronger than Alivia as well, seeing as Graendal is stronger than Nynaeve, clearly making Cyndane AT LEAST CONSIDERABLY stronger than Nynaeve, which is the description given to Alivia's strength.
How did Cyndane defeat Alivia?
- 31/12/2010 08:03:39 PM
3449 Views
As RJ said, Cyndane knows a LOT more about the OP
- 31/12/2010 08:33:47 PM
1543 Views
Re: As RJ said, Cyndane knows a LOT more about the OP
- 31/12/2010 11:54:57 PM
1300 Views
RJ said this .. Go look at his quotes *NM*
- 01/01/2011 05:59:37 AM
835 Views
Re: RJ said this .. Go look at his quotes
- 01/01/2011 06:43:09 AM
1147 Views
Dude, he calls it out specifically. Cyndane beat Alivia because of her skill
- 01/01/2011 03:22:48 PM
1163 Views
Search for "Alivia"
- 01/01/2011 05:58:53 PM
1088 Views
nothing on either url *NM*
- 01/01/2011 11:02:05 PM
509 Views
Try spelling it correctly then
- 02/01/2011 01:30:23 AM
1044 Views
Here are few other quotes establishing how little Alivia knows of the OP
- 02/01/2011 07:39:36 PM
1107 Views
Damane don't know about reversed weaves
- 31/12/2010 09:56:51 PM
1201 Views
How did *Alivia* survive?
- 01/01/2011 12:45:29 AM
1347 Views
Re: How did *Alivia* survive?
- 01/01/2011 01:26:09 AM
1150 Views
Yes, odd.
- 01/01/2011 01:45:01 AM
1081 Views
Nicola wasn't the dragon reborn with the pattern bending around her
- 02/01/2011 12:24:50 PM
959 Views
Not really ... Rand has had LTT knowledge leaking into his head for a long time
- 02/01/2011 07:13:41 PM
973 Views
reversed weaves are only useful when dealing with someone who doesn't know they exist.
- 03/01/2011 07:51:01 PM
894 Views
Depends on the circumstances really
- 04/01/2011 02:17:29 PM
1025 Views
but why would she have any idea that Nynaeve would be able to resist her.
- 10/01/2011 07:30:49 PM
997 Views
Well she did get attacked right off the bat... Pretty indicative that Nyn resist her compulsion
- 11/01/2011 12:56:51 AM
950 Views
Exactly. which is why she didn't have time to do any "fancy" and time consuming reversing.
- 11/01/2011 03:23:50 PM
1094 Views
It would be these memories, his t'a'veren nature & sheer luck/plot necessity that gave him the edge
- 03/01/2011 10:32:43 PM
1010 Views
Well that was always going to happen
- 03/01/2011 11:41:22 PM
958 Views
Yes. As I said, it would have been a very different series. Thanks for going into detail 
!
- 04/01/2011 04:47:51 PM
917 Views
!
- 04/01/2011 04:47:51 PM
917 Views
Small correction - It has not been established that Alivia is stronger than Cyndane unaided...
- 02/01/2011 06:02:53 PM
945 Views
Alivia has little experience fighting channellers, unlike Lanfear (most likely)...
- 03/01/2011 12:56:43 AM
1298 Views
Demandred wasn't commenting on Cadsuane's paralis net, but on her little bird saidin detector...
- 03/01/2011 07:01:08 AM
1093 Views
Where do you get this idea? *NM*
- 03/01/2011 07:19:50 PM
577 Views
Well, he's definitely right he was commenting on one of the specific ter'angreal in her "net".
- 03/01/2011 10:51:09 PM
1035 Views
I'm thinking there are 2 items that break webs in different ways
- 04/01/2011 07:51:46 PM
989 Views
Very interesting point. I never noticed that before...
- 05/01/2011 08:02:52 AM
942 Views
Cadsuane has two types of weavebreakers...
- 05/01/2011 12:51:38 PM
868 Views
inconclusive ... the ornament may be the same one she used to disrupt Semirhage
- 05/01/2011 04:09:39 PM
939 Views
I'm confused...
- 05/01/2011 06:15:06 PM
913 Views
Why should Cadsuane's "distance" unraveler not also go cold at nearby channeling?
- 05/01/2011 06:51:49 PM
914 Views
I'd buy this.
- 05/01/2011 07:12:50 PM
877 Views
Except Cyndane had never heard of a ter'angreal that can unravel weaves...
- 05/01/2011 07:18:58 PM
825 Views
Not necessarily.
- 05/01/2011 09:26:49 PM
929 Views
I doubt it since LTT claims they created the "first" ones in the AOL
- 08/01/2011 05:23:53 PM
880 Views
The first paralis nets, not necessarily the first weave breakers.
- 09/01/2011 09:53:56 PM
928 Views
Maybe, but that's getting really convoluted
- 10/01/2011 03:36:17 AM
800 Views
Agreed
- 10/01/2011 05:14:45 PM
891 Views
I don't remember if the AS Symbol was used prior to the AOL ... if so then it's possible *NM*
- 10/01/2011 05:55:38 PM
515 Views
Because Demandred said so...
- 04/01/2011 07:28:56 AM
955 Views
Re: Because Demandred said so...
- 04/01/2011 08:45:38 AM
988 Views
Well there you have it, then...
- 04/01/2011 09:24:38 AM
854 Views
Contortions
- 04/01/2011 09:56:11 AM
7812 Views
If anyone made a mistake, it was Sanderson, not RJ.
- 04/01/2011 10:07:30 AM
847 Views
Re: If anyone made a mistake, it was Sanderson, not RJ.
- 04/01/2011 10:35:45 AM
1029 Views
I don't think Rand is referring to the system as an indivisible whole.
- 04/01/2011 10:45:24 AM
967 Views
Besides, he knew of the Well from their previous visit to Far Madding...
- 04/01/2011 11:18:39 AM
953 Views
It's also possible that a Paralis Net is simply a name for any personal system
- 04/01/2011 09:23:18 PM
1082 Views
Re: Demandred wasn't commenting on Cadsuane's paralis net, but on her little bird saidin detector...
- 03/01/2011 10:01:00 PM
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I cannot remember Semirhage's reference to a paralis net, but if she did do so, it is problematic...
- 04/01/2011 07:31:24 AM
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I had the opposite view of the WO Dreamwalkers vs the Wolves in the Wolf-dream
- 04/01/2011 05:07:56 PM
1008 Views