Of course there is always the 'luck of the dice' chance, but other than that it really makes little sense that Cyndane was able to defeat Alivia so handily.
Let's look at some of the facts.
1) Alivia was stronger than Cyndane, -maybe- even without her angreal.
2) Alivia had a fairly powerful angreal which was multiplying her strength by at least 3 times, more likely maybe 4-5 times or more. Cyndane had NO angreal.
3) Alivia had a ter'angreal to unravel any weaves directed against her directly (similar to Mat's) where she need not even spare the effort to slice it. So the possibility of Cyndane shielding her (even never mind the angreal) would be virtually impossible.
4) Alivia frightens Nynaeve with her strength, and Nynaeve has come face to face with several Forsaken.
5) Alivia is approx 400 years old, likely older than Cyndane ie Lanfear was and since the age of 12 or 13 she has been trained solely to be used as a weapon. Cyndane may know more weaves, but no reason to believe she knows more battle weaves.
6) Alivia commented that The Asha'man may be called weapons, but she was confident that she was far, far more lethal of a weapon.
7a) Nynaeve who was definitely weaker in the OP than Alivia, and definitely less experienced in the OP than Alivia has defeated a Forsaken at or above her strength and who was far, far more skilled than her both in the real world and in TAR, SO why could Alivia not do the same when she towered over Cyndane in strength and was far more skilled than Nynaeve was?
7b) Many Forsaken have been defeated by less powerful, less knowledgable and less skilled oponents.
Basically between Alivia's 388 years of using the OP as a weapon, her ter'angreal and her quite powerful angreal it should have been like Rand dealing with Damer Flinn, ie: No contest.
Alivia should have actually been able to shield Cyndane quite easily without Cyndane being able to prevent it. Besides luck, or the Pattern protecting Cyndane for some higher purpose how do you explain how Alivia came off as the 'loser' in that fight? Yes she prevented Cyndane from getting to Rand, but she did not shield, capture nor kill Cyndane which is what the odds are in her favor to do.
Let's look at some of the facts.
1) Alivia was stronger than Cyndane, -maybe- even without her angreal.
2) Alivia had a fairly powerful angreal which was multiplying her strength by at least 3 times, more likely maybe 4-5 times or more. Cyndane had NO angreal.
3) Alivia had a ter'angreal to unravel any weaves directed against her directly (similar to Mat's) where she need not even spare the effort to slice it. So the possibility of Cyndane shielding her (even never mind the angreal) would be virtually impossible.
4) Alivia frightens Nynaeve with her strength, and Nynaeve has come face to face with several Forsaken.
5) Alivia is approx 400 years old, likely older than Cyndane ie Lanfear was and since the age of 12 or 13 she has been trained solely to be used as a weapon. Cyndane may know more weaves, but no reason to believe she knows more battle weaves.
6) Alivia commented that The Asha'man may be called weapons, but she was confident that she was far, far more lethal of a weapon.
7a) Nynaeve who was definitely weaker in the OP than Alivia, and definitely less experienced in the OP than Alivia has defeated a Forsaken at or above her strength and who was far, far more skilled than her both in the real world and in TAR, SO why could Alivia not do the same when she towered over Cyndane in strength and was far more skilled than Nynaeve was?
7b) Many Forsaken have been defeated by less powerful, less knowledgable and less skilled oponents.
Basically between Alivia's 388 years of using the OP as a weapon, her ter'angreal and her quite powerful angreal it should have been like Rand dealing with Damer Flinn, ie: No contest.
Alivia should have actually been able to shield Cyndane quite easily without Cyndane being able to prevent it. Besides luck, or the Pattern protecting Cyndane for some higher purpose how do you explain how Alivia came off as the 'loser' in that fight? Yes she prevented Cyndane from getting to Rand, but she did not shield, capture nor kill Cyndane which is what the odds are in her favor to do.
This message last edited by malekithe on 08/01/2011 at 06:14:24 AM
How did Cyndane defeat Alivia?
31/12/2010 08:03:39 PM
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As RJ said, Cyndane knows a LOT more about the OP
31/12/2010 08:33:47 PM
- 1557 Views
Re: As RJ said, Cyndane knows a LOT more about the OP
31/12/2010 11:54:57 PM
- 1316 Views
RJ said this .. Go look at his quotes *NM*
01/01/2011 05:59:37 AM
- 841 Views
Re: RJ said this .. Go look at his quotes
01/01/2011 06:43:09 AM
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Dude, he calls it out specifically. Cyndane beat Alivia because of her skill
01/01/2011 03:22:48 PM
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Search for "Alivia"
01/01/2011 05:58:53 PM
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nothing on either url *NM*
01/01/2011 11:02:05 PM
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Try spelling it correctly then
02/01/2011 01:30:23 AM
- 1055 Views
Here are few other quotes establishing how little Alivia knows of the OP
02/01/2011 07:39:36 PM
- 1122 Views
Damane don't know about reversed weaves
31/12/2010 09:56:51 PM
- 1214 Views
How did *Alivia* survive?
01/01/2011 12:45:29 AM
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Re: How did *Alivia* survive?
01/01/2011 01:26:09 AM
- 1162 Views
Yes, odd.
01/01/2011 01:45:01 AM
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Nicola wasn't the dragon reborn with the pattern bending around her
02/01/2011 12:24:50 PM
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Not really ... Rand has had LTT knowledge leaking into his head for a long time
02/01/2011 07:13:41 PM
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reversed weaves are only useful when dealing with someone who doesn't know they exist.
03/01/2011 07:51:01 PM
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Depends on the circumstances really
04/01/2011 02:17:29 PM
- 1037 Views
but why would she have any idea that Nynaeve would be able to resist her.
10/01/2011 07:30:49 PM
- 1007 Views
Well she did get attacked right off the bat... Pretty indicative that Nyn resist her compulsion
11/01/2011 12:56:51 AM
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Exactly. which is why she didn't have time to do any "fancy" and time consuming reversing.
11/01/2011 03:23:50 PM
- 1111 Views
It would be these memories, his t'a'veren nature & sheer luck/plot necessity that gave him the edge
03/01/2011 10:32:43 PM
- 1022 Views
Well that was always going to happen
03/01/2011 11:41:22 PM
- 970 Views
Yes. As I said, it would have been a very different series. Thanks for going into detail !
04/01/2011 04:47:51 PM
- 933 Views
Small correction - It has not been established that Alivia is stronger than Cyndane unaided...
02/01/2011 06:02:53 PM
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Alivia has little experience fighting channellers, unlike Lanfear (most likely)...
03/01/2011 12:56:43 AM
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Demandred wasn't commenting on Cadsuane's paralis net, but on her little bird saidin detector...
03/01/2011 07:01:08 AM
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Where do you get this idea? *NM*
03/01/2011 07:19:50 PM
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Well, he's definitely right he was commenting on one of the specific ter'angreal in her "net".
03/01/2011 10:51:09 PM
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I'm thinking there are 2 items that break webs in different ways
04/01/2011 07:51:46 PM
- 1001 Views
Very interesting point. I never noticed that before...
05/01/2011 08:02:52 AM
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Cadsuane has two types of weavebreakers...
05/01/2011 12:51:38 PM
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inconclusive ... the ornament may be the same one she used to disrupt Semirhage
05/01/2011 04:09:39 PM
- 950 Views
I'm confused...
05/01/2011 06:15:06 PM
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Why should Cadsuane's "distance" unraveler not also go cold at nearby channeling?
05/01/2011 06:51:49 PM
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I'd buy this.
05/01/2011 07:12:50 PM
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Except Cyndane had never heard of a ter'angreal that can unravel weaves...
05/01/2011 07:18:58 PM
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Not necessarily.
05/01/2011 09:26:49 PM
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I doubt it since LTT claims they created the "first" ones in the AOL
08/01/2011 05:23:53 PM
- 893 Views
The first paralis nets, not necessarily the first weave breakers.
09/01/2011 09:53:56 PM
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Maybe, but that's getting really convoluted
10/01/2011 03:36:17 AM
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Agreed
10/01/2011 05:14:45 PM
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I don't remember if the AS Symbol was used prior to the AOL ... if so then it's possible *NM*
10/01/2011 05:55:38 PM
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Because Demandred said so...
04/01/2011 07:28:56 AM
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Re: Because Demandred said so...
04/01/2011 08:45:38 AM
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Well there you have it, then...
04/01/2011 09:24:38 AM
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Contortions
04/01/2011 09:56:11 AM
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If anyone made a mistake, it was Sanderson, not RJ.
04/01/2011 10:07:30 AM
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Re: If anyone made a mistake, it was Sanderson, not RJ.
04/01/2011 10:35:45 AM
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I don't think Rand is referring to the system as an indivisible whole.
04/01/2011 10:45:24 AM
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Besides, he knew of the Well from their previous visit to Far Madding...
04/01/2011 11:18:39 AM
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It's also possible that a Paralis Net is simply a name for any personal system
04/01/2011 09:23:18 PM
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Re: Demandred wasn't commenting on Cadsuane's paralis net, but on her little bird saidin detector...
03/01/2011 10:01:00 PM
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I cannot remember Semirhage's reference to a paralis net, but if she did do so, it is problematic...
04/01/2011 07:31:24 AM
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I had the opposite view of the WO Dreamwalkers vs the Wolves in the Wolf-dream
04/01/2011 05:07:56 PM
- 1019 Views