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Re: No, the Seanchan started it, by wanting to conquer the rest of the world... saidarisnowtainted Send a noteboard - 30/12/2010 03:56:55 PM
It strikes me as odd that behaviour of Rand's kids matches his Dark Rand persona, in terms of do-as-I-say-rest-be-doomed approach. Also, it strikes me as odd that when kids were mentioned, no Aviendha and no Elayne around. And not Egwene and no Nynaeve. I would think Aunt Nynaeve could've spanked them for their stupidity, and Egwene would have a big influence on the Wise Ones. But nothing of that has happened.

For me, it means the Dark Rand did not survive the Last Battle and it was very costly in terms of channelers head count. All our Supergirls did not survive and leftovers picked up their places.

Granted, the Light Rand does not guarantee that it would be much better, but we may have hope that it would.


I'm not so sure that Avienda's vision was affected by the timing of the vision vis a vis Rand's Dark vs. Light perspective.

Firstly, I dont think Dark Rand would induce the peace treaty.
Secondly, fundamentally, I dont think Dark Rand could win the last battle. There is no future unless Rand defeats the DO.

Thus the fact that we are shown a future with the peace treaty and victory at the last battle demonstrates that the vision was not affected by Rand's alignment at the time of the viewing. In fact, the vision can be seen as predicting Rand's shift to the Light early in this future timeline.

So i think this is the future we are going to get under the best circumstances for the good guys. The only way out of it that i can think of is if the Aiel are included in the treaty.
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Avienda's viewing and the Fields of Merrilor (spoilers) saidarisnowtainted - 28/12/2010 06:21:05 PM 3279 Views
Timing moratcorlm - 28/12/2010 06:43:32 PM 1906 Views
Indeed...the bleak future makes the Last Battle almost an anti-climax... Shannow - 28/12/2010 08:20:31 PM 1996 Views
And yet, the only places of relative peace and shelter right now are Seanchan controlled lands. everynametaken - 29/12/2010 03:21:37 AM 1548 Views
+1. Lord Haart - 29/12/2010 04:04:02 AM 1346 Views
Re: +1. Lo'oris - 07/01/2011 05:25:23 PM 1229 Views
Those who would give up permanent liberty in exchange for temporary security, deserve neither.. Shannow - 29/12/2010 10:27:35 AM 1351 Views
Says the person defending monarchies and oligarchies, some of them quite brutal. moratcorlm - 29/12/2010 02:12:56 PM 1320 Views
LoL. What is this "POV trap" that people refer to so often to make a point? Shannow - 29/12/2010 10:00:11 PM 1470 Views
Re: LoL. What is this "POV trap" that people refer to so often to make a point? moratcorlm - 29/12/2010 10:44:12 PM 1314 Views
Why do you have this urge to overcomplicate something as simple as personal likes and dislikes? Shannow - 30/12/2010 10:00:43 AM 1264 Views
Re: Why do you have this urge to overcomplicate something as simple as personal likes and dislikes? Lo'oris - 07/01/2011 05:28:03 PM 1218 Views
"romantic characteristics" Variant - 07/01/2011 06:06:31 AM 1188 Views
Re: "romantic characteristics" Lo'oris - 07/01/2011 05:30:33 PM 1216 Views
Don't blame the Seanchan, The Aiel made an excuse to start a war. Variant - 08/01/2011 09:20:36 AM 1622 Views
Re: Those who would give up permanent liberty in exchange for temporary security, deserve neither.. Zeratul - 29/12/2010 03:06:16 PM 1445 Views
Exactly. *NM* everynametaken - 30/12/2010 02:50:07 AM 850 Views
They are pretty close to evil. Slavery being the big thing, but the crushing social scale is far darius_sedai - 31/12/2010 06:45:59 PM 1171 Views
The Aiel sold slaves to Shara, does that make them evil? No society in Randland is without flaws. Variant - 07/01/2011 05:10:32 AM 1424 Views
you are missing my point darius_sedai - 07/01/2011 11:31:11 PM 1298 Views
We haven't had a POV from a NON-high-ranking Seanchan moratcorlm - 08/01/2011 03:13:26 AM 24800 Views
As to Bethamin ... darius_sedai - 20/01/2011 04:46:36 PM 1288 Views
No, you're missing the point. Benevolence is irrelevant. Variant - 08/01/2011 09:48:51 AM 1201 Views
Re: No, you're missing the point. Benevolence is irrelevant. Lo'oris - 08/01/2011 10:04:18 AM 1253 Views
Well the Westlands aren't exactly modern Europe or USA either Lohikaarme - 08/01/2011 11:00:31 AM 1210 Views
Re: Well the Westlands aren't exactly modern Europe or USA either Lo'oris - 09/01/2011 02:08:17 AM 1203 Views
That's funny, I'd choose modern day China in a second. Variant - 09/01/2011 06:37:24 AM 1190 Views
Hong Kong is not an accurate representation of the rest of Modern China darius_sedai - 20/01/2011 04:50:20 PM 1181 Views
~sigh~ Cosmopolitan China is different than Rural China Variant - 21/01/2011 01:00:17 AM 1183 Views
well there is also the fact that Hong Kong has different "rules" than even other major darius_sedai - 21/01/2011 05:38:46 PM 1236 Views
I'm not just talking about Hong Kong though... Variant - 22/01/2011 09:36:20 AM 1256 Views
I've traveled extensively darius_sedai - 22/01/2011 06:02:47 PM 1192 Views
You've traveled to China extensively? Variant - 22/01/2011 07:41:30 PM 1260 Views
the quesetion you responded too is "would you rather live in Medieval Europe of Modern China darius_sedai - 22/01/2011 09:47:24 PM 1448 Views
I responded, "I"d choose modern day china in a second" Variant - 22/01/2011 10:29:46 PM 1273 Views
Actually, China is changing. Variant - 09/01/2011 06:32:58 AM 1231 Views
true to a point, yet China has been under one form or another of totalitarian rule for darius_sedai - 20/01/2011 04:57:37 PM 1204 Views
So? Variant - 21/01/2011 01:20:18 AM 1315 Views
Double post *NM* Variant - 21/01/2011 01:21:10 AM 672 Views
It's the comparative to the Seanchan empire I'm really getting at here, not saying China isn't darius_sedai - 21/01/2011 05:43:56 PM 1291 Views
I don't even know why China was brought up in the first place ~shrugs~ Variant - 22/01/2011 10:04:59 AM 1136 Views
I totally agree with your last point, which is why I think RJ set them up to be the "Evil Empire" darius_sedai - 22/01/2011 06:12:46 PM 1218 Views
They're not entirely evil though, and RJ has written them that way Variant - 22/01/2011 08:02:22 PM 1197 Views
not so much darius_sedai - 22/01/2011 09:54:38 PM 1165 Views
Your example is absurd. Variant - 22/01/2011 10:53:06 PM 1109 Views
Ah yes, the "Jews can kill you with their minds" argument. *NM* moratcorlm - 23/01/2011 05:32:23 PM 672 Views
Please. Like anyone else in Randland is really free? everynametaken - 30/12/2010 02:47:27 AM 1195 Views
Andor is rather progressive... Allowing the common people to speak their minds darius_sedai - 31/12/2010 06:35:29 PM 1154 Views
Andor is lionized as a huge exception to the general rule moratcorlm - 31/12/2010 11:57:30 PM 1261 Views
Re: Andor is rather progressive... Allowing the common people to speak their minds Zeratul - 01/01/2011 12:18:46 AM 1276 Views
Seanchan is much closer to the Chinese culture. Which has never established democracy darius_sedai - 01/01/2011 06:12:10 AM 1606 Views
Prussia (and with it Germany) would never have changed to democracy if not forced to Voscaia Sedai - 01/01/2011 12:23:34 PM 1119 Views
too easy: they did not have to fight the Shadow, they don't even know shadowspawn really exist as of *NM* Lo'oris - 29/12/2010 02:44:18 PM 712 Views
It goes beyond the channelers. The Seanchan control the population darius_sedai - 31/12/2010 06:00:57 PM 1155 Views
Re: It goes beyond the channelers. The Seanchan control the population moratcorlm - 01/01/2011 10:58:22 PM 1276 Views
Word, even the Tinkers are gathering and migrating to Seanchan held lands in the south. *NM* Variant - 07/01/2011 05:21:09 AM 637 Views
Maybe they're a remnant of humanity Sidious - 29/12/2010 04:41:40 AM 1357 Views
Re: Maybe they're a remnant of humanity moratcorlm - 29/12/2010 02:17:33 PM 1311 Views
Couple of flaws here darius_sedai - 31/12/2010 06:54:13 PM 1186 Views
You are right, here is a better analogy dadof5 - 03/01/2011 06:23:16 PM 1189 Views
Even Hitler didn't think Jews could kill people with their minds moratcorlm - 03/01/2011 07:22:09 PM 1239 Views
It depends on Rand's sperm I guess Skeeve the Great - 28/12/2010 08:27:59 PM 1286 Views
No, the Seanchan started it, by wanting to conquer the rest of the world... Shannow - 28/12/2010 08:31:27 PM 1367 Views
Re: No, the Seanchan started it, by wanting to conquer the rest of the world... Skeeve the Great - 28/12/2010 08:50:28 PM 1243 Views
Re: No, the Seanchan started it, by wanting to conquer the rest of the world... saidarisnowtainted - 30/12/2010 03:56:55 PM 1287 Views
Because the Aiel are savages who have no place in a modern world moratcorlm - 28/12/2010 11:15:23 PM 1349 Views
Re: No, the Seanchan started it, by wanting to conquer the rest of the world... saidarisnowtainted - 30/12/2010 04:01:00 PM 1302 Views
Re: It depends on Rand's sperm I guess Ashaman_Luc - 28/12/2010 11:02:34 PM 1228 Views
VoG = Veins of Gold. The chapter at the end of TGS where Rand becomes balanced. *NM* Lord Haart - 29/12/2010 06:56:38 AM 2103 Views
Re: It depends on Rand's sperm I guess Sidious - 29/12/2010 04:37:04 AM 1238 Views
Re: It depends on Rand's sperm I guess Skeeve the Great - 29/12/2010 02:37:12 PM 1242 Views
Re: It depends on Rand's sperm I guess saidarisnowtainted - 30/12/2010 04:02:31 PM 1481 Views
timeline in the books Ava - 29/12/2010 03:34:45 PM 1311 Views
Re: timeline in the books moratcorlm - 29/12/2010 05:29:11 PM 1324 Views
Re: timeline in the books Ava - 31/12/2010 01:18:32 PM 1209 Views
yes thousands and thousands AFTER hundreds of years. these kids were probably slowing since birth. Onarishma - 03/01/2011 08:19:22 PM 1286 Views
Re: yes thousands and thousands AFTER hundreds of years. Ava - 04/01/2011 12:21:59 PM 1128 Views
your premise is that first generation applies to anyone but them. Onarishma - 10/01/2011 09:25:02 PM 1157 Views
Aviendha + Mat (and Seta and Bethamin) are the best hopes. The Angry Druid - 09/01/2011 01:45:00 AM 1261 Views
From a plot standpoint I very much dislike Avienda's visions as well The Count - 20/01/2011 01:39:37 AM 1691 Views
Problem is, the fate of post-TG Randland depends on the viewing being heeded before TG. *NM* Lord Haart - 20/01/2011 10:07:15 AM 616 Views
The Light's victory in the Last Battle was already a foregone conclusion ranagrande - 21/01/2011 03:48:54 PM 1135 Views
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