Before I go any further, I will declare that I dislike Egwene as a character. Having said that, after reading TOM, I have a strange feeling about Egwene's future.
It seems to me, that she is a very odd leader, a leader without a power base. When I look at other leaders for the Light, they all have a power base, a group of people who shares something essential with them, a reason to follow them.
Mat has his Band. They follow him to survive till the Last Battle.
Perrin has the Two River folks, and the refuges with him will probably settle into the Two River area. They follow him to have safety and future prosperity in the Two River area.
Rand has the Aiel, who follow him to have a future with honor. Those who don't believe so had already joined the Shaido. Despite the lack of evidence so far, most of the Aiel still believe Rand will bring them great honor, based on faith in dreams, fortellings, and the WO's work behind the scenes. But they do support Rand out of a genuie belief, and they will continue to support Rand as long as they continue to believe in him.
Elayne has the Houses of Andor. They all want safety and prosperity. And when they saw her having the same desire as them, and having the capability of a good Queen, those Houses became her power base.
But who can Egwene rely on? Who form the power base of Egwene? As far as I can tell, Egwene just pit one group of AS against another group of AS, and hang on to the position without any group to call her own. Even the Green did not support her any stronger than any other Ajah, as can be seen from the secret Hall meeting. I think her lack of a power base is due to her lacking an identity of her own.
As I think harder on this, I believe based on Egwene's character growth so far, she is not fit for a leader. Let us Look back into her history. In EoTW, she want to be the best water carrier. When She met the Aiel Wise Ones, she want to be the best Aiel. When she joins the rebels, she want to be the best AS. She would take up the traits of whoever she come in contact with, and grow into that role very quickly.
That, to me, is the trait of a Great Follower. She would be a Great Administrator, after someone else had set up all the rules. In fact, Rand saw through this, and ask her to gather the world's army for him. That is percisely the job of an administrator.
An administrator does not need a power base, it only needs to evenly apply the rules given. A leader on the other hand, needs to have a vision, an idea that her followers can aspire to, and a way to realize that vision.
She can follow the rules very well, and take advantage of the rules very well. Her time with the Rebel AS had proven so. But so far, I don't see her coming up with any good rules, a vision of her own. Her flip-flop on the Three Oaths. Her insistence on the Tests. Her denial of her Dream about alliance with the Seanchan. She is not a good leader. John McCain was captured and tortured in Vietnam. And I am not sure if Egwene can claim her experience with the Seanchan is worse than John McCain's. John McCain can go to Vietnam without his personal grudges. Can Egwene do the same? If she want to be a good political leader, she must be able to do that, and put aside her personal feelings.
It seems to me, that she is a very odd leader, a leader without a power base. When I look at other leaders for the Light, they all have a power base, a group of people who shares something essential with them, a reason to follow them.
Mat has his Band. They follow him to survive till the Last Battle.
Perrin has the Two River folks, and the refuges with him will probably settle into the Two River area. They follow him to have safety and future prosperity in the Two River area.
Rand has the Aiel, who follow him to have a future with honor. Those who don't believe so had already joined the Shaido. Despite the lack of evidence so far, most of the Aiel still believe Rand will bring them great honor, based on faith in dreams, fortellings, and the WO's work behind the scenes. But they do support Rand out of a genuie belief, and they will continue to support Rand as long as they continue to believe in him.
Elayne has the Houses of Andor. They all want safety and prosperity. And when they saw her having the same desire as them, and having the capability of a good Queen, those Houses became her power base.
But who can Egwene rely on? Who form the power base of Egwene? As far as I can tell, Egwene just pit one group of AS against another group of AS, and hang on to the position without any group to call her own. Even the Green did not support her any stronger than any other Ajah, as can be seen from the secret Hall meeting. I think her lack of a power base is due to her lacking an identity of her own.
As I think harder on this, I believe based on Egwene's character growth so far, she is not fit for a leader. Let us Look back into her history. In EoTW, she want to be the best water carrier. When She met the Aiel Wise Ones, she want to be the best Aiel. When she joins the rebels, she want to be the best AS. She would take up the traits of whoever she come in contact with, and grow into that role very quickly.
That, to me, is the trait of a Great Follower. She would be a Great Administrator, after someone else had set up all the rules. In fact, Rand saw through this, and ask her to gather the world's army for him. That is percisely the job of an administrator.
An administrator does not need a power base, it only needs to evenly apply the rules given. A leader on the other hand, needs to have a vision, an idea that her followers can aspire to, and a way to realize that vision.
She can follow the rules very well, and take advantage of the rules very well. Her time with the Rebel AS had proven so. But so far, I don't see her coming up with any good rules, a vision of her own. Her flip-flop on the Three Oaths. Her insistence on the Tests. Her denial of her Dream about alliance with the Seanchan. She is not a good leader. John McCain was captured and tortured in Vietnam. And I am not sure if Egwene can claim her experience with the Seanchan is worse than John McCain's. John McCain can go to Vietnam without his personal grudges. Can Egwene do the same? If she want to be a good political leader, she must be able to do that, and put aside her personal feelings.
Egwene's a good leader for Aes Sedai if you don't mind them continuing down the road of complete diasaster. But she's a horrible person, just absoultely horrible. As littletempest said though, she's immune to criticism in the books due to her 'Mary Sue' status and it's sneer worthy at this point imo.
...I'm on the fence with Elayne usually but at least you can argue in favor of Elayne caring for something greater than herself (people of Andor) and have some redeeming qualities. Egwene on the other hand....if the Dark One had had a clue, he could have done as much damage if not more arguebly by focusing his efforts on Egwene instead of Rand throughout the books but that's here nor there at this point.
Egwene, a poor leader?
16/12/2010 05:59:15 PM
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Egwene isn't supposed to be a leader. She's a dictator and a politician.
16/12/2010 08:21:13 PM
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Re: Egwene, a poor leader?
16/12/2010 10:53:20 PM
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If the Shadow had removed Elaida so Egwene was Amyrlin whilst Rand was still Dark ...
16/12/2010 11:56:08 PM
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Same thing if Elaida was in charge when meeting w/ Dark Rand. *NM*
17/12/2010 02:10:20 AM
- 500 Views
Except Rand wouldn't go to the WT with Elaida in charge, without having to fight
17/12/2010 02:50:18 AM
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Re: Egwene, a poor leader?
17/12/2010 03:07:40 AM
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Exactly how loyal do you think Nynaeve and Elayne are?
17/12/2010 04:52:34 AM
- 870 Views
Re: Exactly how loyal do you think Nynaeve and Elayne are?
17/12/2010 05:44:30 AM
- 976 Views
Re: Egwene, a poor leader?
17/12/2010 02:30:48 PM
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Re: Egwene, a poor leader?
17/12/2010 08:25:39 PM
- 813 Views
Re: Egwene, a poor leader?
18/12/2010 05:06:21 AM
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Re: Egwene, a poor leader?
19/12/2010 08:41:31 PM
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Torturing Nynaeve for exclusively her own political ends. *NM*
20/12/2010 12:14:55 AM
- 534 Views
Re: Torturing Nynaeve for exclusively her own political ends.
20/12/2010 01:24:12 AM
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And the most painful torments were caused by Egwene
20/12/2010 09:31:44 AM
- 1039 Views
Re: Egwene, a poor leader?
20/12/2010 12:57:42 AM
- 838 Views
She has the same power base as any Amyrlin - the Aes Sedai, the artisans, Guards & citizens of TV
17/12/2010 05:51:20 PM
- 968 Views
Ta'veren vs. Mary Sue
17/12/2010 07:33:28 PM
- 1338 Views
I see them as being the same thing.
17/12/2010 08:11:30 PM
- 968 Views
I don't think the case can be made for Rand having it easy
17/12/2010 11:04:58 PM
- 887 Views
I would say that in the grand scheme of things, Rand's had good to balance out the bad.
20/12/2010 06:27:35 PM
- 870 Views
Funniest statement I've ever seen on here.
18/12/2010 05:22:28 AM
- 978 Views
But you are just undervaluing Egwene's struggles in comparison to the other characters.
20/12/2010 06:17:17 PM
- 1279 Views
Re: But you are just undervaluing Egwene's struggles in comparison to the other characters.
22/12/2010 05:28:01 PM
- 1052 Views
Yes, but for completely different reasons...
18/12/2010 12:35:23 AM
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You think Egwene has more power than Tuon?
18/12/2010 12:27:01 PM
- 830 Views
Definitely...
18/12/2010 03:24:12 PM
- 867 Views
I think comparing Egwene to McCain is asking for trouble on several fronts.
20/12/2010 12:33:04 AM
- 831 Views
She has a pretty powerful weapon...
20/12/2010 02:41:32 AM
- 867 Views
RJ is more powerful.
20/12/2010 03:25:49 AM
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Re: She has a pretty powerful weapon...
20/12/2010 09:46:22 AM
- 948 Views
Re: She has a pretty powerful weapon...
20/12/2010 09:55:03 AM
- 810 Views
Re: She has a pretty powerful weapon...
20/12/2010 10:27:59 AM
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