Egwene thinks she can overcome the BEFORE she knows she's been dosed with forkroot!
KOD
Prologue
Abruptly it came to her that she was not shielded. Muddled she might be, but that made no sense at all. They could feel her strength, as she could theirs, and while none was weak, she thought she could overcome all five if she were quick enough. The True Source was a vast sun just beyond the edge of sight, calling to her. The first question was, did she dare try yet? In the state her head was, thought wading through knee-deep mud, whether she could actually embrace saidar was uncertain, and succeed or fail, they would know once she tried. Best to try recovering a little beforehand. The second question was, how long did she dare wait? They would not let her go unshielded forever.
Experimentally, she tried wiggling her toes inside her stout leather shoes, and was delighted when they moved obediently. Life seemed to be returning slowly to her arms and legs. She thought she might be able to raise her head now, if unsteadily. Whatever they had given her was wearing off. How long?
Events were taken out of her hands by the dark-haired sister sitting in the middle of the rear seat, who leaned forward and slapped her so hard that she toppled onto the lap of the woman she had been leaning against.
Her hand went to her stinging cheek on its own volition. So much for pretending unconsciousness.
“There was no need for that, Katerine,” a raspy voice said above her as its owner lifted her upright again. She could hold her head up, just, it turned out. Katerine. That would be Katerine Alruddin, a Red. It seemed important to identify her captors for some reason, though she knew nothing of Katerine beyond her name and Ajah. The sister she had fallen onto was yellow-haired, but her moon-shadowed face belonged to a stranger. “I think you gave her too much of the forkroot,” the woman went on.
A chill flashed through her. So that was what she had been fed! She racked her brain for everything Nynaeve had told her about that vile tea, but her thoughts were still slow. Better, though, it seemed. She was sure Nynaeve had said the effects took some time to go away completely.
“I gave her the exact dose, Felaana,” the sister who had slapped her replied dryly, “and as you can see, it is leaving her precisely as it should. I want her able to walk by the time we reach the Tower. I certainly don’t intend to help carry her again,” she finished with a glare for the sister seated to Egwene’s left, who shook her head, beaded braids clicking faintly. That was Pritalle Nerbaijan, a Yellow who had done her best to avoid teaching novices or Accepted and made little secret of her dislike for the task when forced to it.
Clearly the AS have been experimenting with the effects of forkroot and knew exactly how much to give her to prevent her from being able to Channel with any strength for hours, but to make sure she was awake within a certain time frame. Just as clearly she was given a pretty strong does as it knocked her out for a while... compare to what she has to say about this dose that did not knock her out...
TGS
In The White Tower
Three hours of working the kitchens did little to improve her mood. Laras, the hefty Mistress of Kitchens, had set Egwene at scrubbing out one of the oven like fireplaces. It was dirty, grimy work, not conducive to thinking. Not that there were many ways out of her situation.
...
She continued, scratching with her scrape at a blackened section of brick, dimly lit by the lantern she'd left burning in a corner inside the fireplace. She itched to use the One Power; but the Reds outside would sense her channeling, and she'd discovered that her afternoon dose of forkroot had been uncharacteristically strong, leaving her unable to channel as much as a trickle. In fact, it had been strong enough to leave her drowsy, which made the work even harder.
So she's given a dose not strong enough to knock her out, but she's still unable to channel even a trickle 3 hours later! It's no wonder no one is questioning Barasine alone holding the shield, and that's assuming they didn't go get another Sister if Katerine had been allowed to go!
In fact we know for fact that the effects of a strong does can keep her unable to Channel with any strength for most of the night ... we see it after she meets Verin! Just prior to that scene she takes a strong dose of forkroot (but not strong enough to even make her drowsy), and then proceeds to spend most of the night in study of Verin's book (by the time Meidani comes an entire candle has burned to a nub), and later when the Seanchan attack she can only barely grasp the source.
Silviana was being cautious indeed by having 2 strong sisters hold her shield while she slept.
KOD
Prologue
Abruptly it came to her that she was not shielded. Muddled she might be, but that made no sense at all. They could feel her strength, as she could theirs, and while none was weak, she thought she could overcome all five if she were quick enough. The True Source was a vast sun just beyond the edge of sight, calling to her. The first question was, did she dare try yet? In the state her head was, thought wading through knee-deep mud, whether she could actually embrace saidar was uncertain, and succeed or fail, they would know once she tried. Best to try recovering a little beforehand. The second question was, how long did she dare wait? They would not let her go unshielded forever.
Experimentally, she tried wiggling her toes inside her stout leather shoes, and was delighted when they moved obediently. Life seemed to be returning slowly to her arms and legs. She thought she might be able to raise her head now, if unsteadily. Whatever they had given her was wearing off. How long?
Events were taken out of her hands by the dark-haired sister sitting in the middle of the rear seat, who leaned forward and slapped her so hard that she toppled onto the lap of the woman she had been leaning against.
Her hand went to her stinging cheek on its own volition. So much for pretending unconsciousness.
“There was no need for that, Katerine,” a raspy voice said above her as its owner lifted her upright again. She could hold her head up, just, it turned out. Katerine. That would be Katerine Alruddin, a Red. It seemed important to identify her captors for some reason, though she knew nothing of Katerine beyond her name and Ajah. The sister she had fallen onto was yellow-haired, but her moon-shadowed face belonged to a stranger. “I think you gave her too much of the forkroot,” the woman went on.
A chill flashed through her. So that was what she had been fed! She racked her brain for everything Nynaeve had told her about that vile tea, but her thoughts were still slow. Better, though, it seemed. She was sure Nynaeve had said the effects took some time to go away completely.
“I gave her the exact dose, Felaana,” the sister who had slapped her replied dryly, “and as you can see, it is leaving her precisely as it should. I want her able to walk by the time we reach the Tower. I certainly don’t intend to help carry her again,” she finished with a glare for the sister seated to Egwene’s left, who shook her head, beaded braids clicking faintly. That was Pritalle Nerbaijan, a Yellow who had done her best to avoid teaching novices or Accepted and made little secret of her dislike for the task when forced to it.
Clearly the AS have been experimenting with the effects of forkroot and knew exactly how much to give her to prevent her from being able to Channel with any strength for hours, but to make sure she was awake within a certain time frame. Just as clearly she was given a pretty strong does as it knocked her out for a while... compare to what she has to say about this dose that did not knock her out...
TGS
In The White Tower
Three hours of working the kitchens did little to improve her mood. Laras, the hefty Mistress of Kitchens, had set Egwene at scrubbing out one of the oven like fireplaces. It was dirty, grimy work, not conducive to thinking. Not that there were many ways out of her situation.
...
She continued, scratching with her scrape at a blackened section of brick, dimly lit by the lantern she'd left burning in a corner inside the fireplace. She itched to use the One Power; but the Reds outside would sense her channeling, and she'd discovered that her afternoon dose of forkroot had been uncharacteristically strong, leaving her unable to channel as much as a trickle. In fact, it had been strong enough to leave her drowsy, which made the work even harder.
So she's given a dose not strong enough to knock her out, but she's still unable to channel even a trickle 3 hours later! It's no wonder no one is questioning Barasine alone holding the shield, and that's assuming they didn't go get another Sister if Katerine had been allowed to go!
In fact we know for fact that the effects of a strong does can keep her unable to Channel with any strength for most of the night ... we see it after she meets Verin! Just prior to that scene she takes a strong dose of forkroot (but not strong enough to even make her drowsy), and then proceeds to spend most of the night in study of Verin's book (by the time Meidani comes an entire candle has burned to a nub), and later when the Seanchan attack she can only barely grasp the source.
Silviana was being cautious indeed by having 2 strong sisters hold her shield while she slept.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 12/12/2010 at 04:39:53 PM
More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken
09/12/2010 03:45:27 PM
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Yes.
09/12/2010 04:39:58 PM
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No.
09/12/2010 05:34:57 PM
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Actually...exponential or at least non-linear makes alot of sense to me
09/12/2010 06:27:29 PM
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Nope. Then Rand would be able to crush 13 Aes Sedai with ease.
09/12/2010 06:32:53 PM
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Three things:
09/12/2010 06:47:30 PM
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That quote is incorrect as it contradicts all other evidence from later books...
09/12/2010 06:51:02 PM
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If strength isn't linear and on a steep enough curve that could work.
09/12/2010 07:22:24 PM
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I think that RJ's statement that the strongest man and strongest women were equal...
10/12/2010 03:23:12 PM
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I wasn't aware this was an issue?
09/12/2010 04:45:02 PM
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I just hope aMoL finally reveals who's going to be the Dragon Reborn...these lesser debates can hang *NM*
09/12/2010 05:26:37 PM
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not really
09/12/2010 04:46:42 PM
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and you'll note that none of the angreal are considered particularly strong
09/12/2010 04:48:14 PM
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She probably weaved them separately on account of being pregnant *NM*
09/12/2010 04:56:12 PM
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Pregnancy seems to be interfere with her ability to grasp the power
09/12/2010 05:06:15 PM
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I don't know if it's a more complex CHANNELING undertaking, though
09/12/2010 05:42:57 PM
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I don't have the book handy, but she talks about the level of complexity
09/12/2010 05:45:52 PM
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hmm, but we still don't know if it's the weaves or the process that is so complex
09/12/2010 06:28:14 PM
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Well according to Monaella it makes it harder to Channel, but from Elayne's POV
09/12/2010 06:52:55 PM
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We never really get a feel for their relative strengths
09/12/2010 05:51:38 PM
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Yes. In PoD Aviendha states that the woman-wrapped-in-hair angreal almost doubles her strength...
09/12/2010 06:30:41 PM
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you have the wrong angreal and the wrong strength
09/12/2010 07:07:18 PM
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Nope. You are the one whose got the wrong angreal...
09/12/2010 07:15:38 PM
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where is that quote my friend?
09/12/2010 08:07:50 PM
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PoD: The Breaking Storm
09/12/2010 08:16:58 PM
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Ah yes, ... "almost 2x as much" still doesn't support your assertion that Nyn is 50% above Elayne
09/12/2010 08:20:37 PM
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That's a gross skewing of what that sentence means...
09/12/2010 09:05:05 PM
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Don't be absurd...
09/12/2010 09:21:00 PM
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she does not say that! she says Moghedien could kill her before she could react. so could Daigian
09/12/2010 09:34:50 PM
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"The only Aes Sedai who could hope to match one of the Forsaken was in Ebou Dar..."
09/12/2010 09:44:25 PM
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And yet...
09/12/2010 09:48:34 PM
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No, Egwene does NOT think she can defeat Mesaana in a One Power battle...
09/12/2010 09:59:35 PM
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Here are te quotes...
09/12/2010 10:10:09 PM
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Did you not read the quote above, made by Egwene in the heat of battle with Mesaana?
09/12/2010 10:34:05 PM
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It might interest you to know that that was Katerine!
10/12/2010 12:15:51 AM
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Oh nonsense
10/12/2010 04:43:44 AM
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But that's his point.
10/12/2010 06:01:59 AM
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its a useless point
10/12/2010 10:11:00 AM
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Yes, utterly useless...
10/12/2010 11:46:15 AM
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Dude, you need to re-read the books...
10/12/2010 04:15:11 PM
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he means Sheriam, but your points still hold true
10/12/2010 08:19:16 PM
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Re: he means Sheriam, but your points still hold true
11/12/2010 07:21:49 AM
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potentially, but Mesaana later turns up with BA using the 19 stolen ter'angreal.
11/12/2010 03:41:41 PM
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I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there...
10/12/2010 04:11:56 PM
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Re: I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there...
10/12/2010 04:35:23 PM
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Duh! Seriously, are you Elaida or something? Your logic is astounding.
10/12/2010 06:47:17 AM
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Duh! Seriously, are you Elaida or something? Your logic is astounding.
10/12/2010 06:47:18 AM
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which only tells us that Nynaeve is equal to the Forsaken. Has nothing to do with Egwene being
10/12/2010 01:51:12 PM
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Nynaeve has been channeling (albeit blocked) for close to 10 years
10/12/2010 02:24:57 PM
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Re: Yes.
09/12/2010 07:49:12 PM
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You're obviously a latecomer to this ongoing debate. Here's a recap...
09/12/2010 08:03:51 PM
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where this falls apart is that Daigian at a 10 is too weak
09/12/2010 08:16:17 PM
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Nope...
09/12/2010 08:44:51 PM
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now you are just force fitting quotes into what you want to say
09/12/2010 09:29:20 PM
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Nope...
09/12/2010 09:42:58 PM
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all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW
11/12/2010 08:04:02 PM
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Re: all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW
11/12/2010 11:59:55 PM
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I don't think Elayne was forced
12/12/2010 04:33:26 PM
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I believe there is a quote from RJ that states they all were, but Egwene was held damane
12/12/2010 04:43:29 PM
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Re: I believe there is a quote from RJ that states they all were, but Egwene was held damane
12/12/2010 04:46:50 PM
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Thanks for the quote
12/12/2010 07:17:30 PM
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perhaps the opportunity hasn't arisen? And of course it's politic to appologize to the Amyrlin
12/12/2010 07:41:11 PM
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Re: all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW
12/12/2010 08:04:21 PM
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that's where I'm estimating Nynaeve being close to Siuan and Moiraine in EoTW
12/12/2010 08:30:54 PM
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Re: now you are just force fitting quotes into what you want to say
10/12/2010 01:17:10 AM
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Mesaana
10/12/2010 04:43:07 AM
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agreed
10/12/2010 01:48:59 PM
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Re: agreed
10/12/2010 04:38:28 PM
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very true, and I find it interesting that during the TAR battle Mesaana didn't bother
10/12/2010 05:03:43 PM
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Re: very true, and I find it interesting that during the TAR battle Mesaana didn't bother
11/12/2010 07:22:54 AM
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Re: You're obviously a latecomer to this ongoing debate. Here's a recap...
10/12/2010 09:19:17 AM
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OK. Here's the clear evidence of Dagian's, Moiraine's, Egwenes and Moghedien's comparative levels.
10/12/2010 12:00:48 PM
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"clear evidence"
10/12/2010 01:27:01 PM
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Laughable interpretation...
10/12/2010 01:31:57 PM
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Amys is clearly stronger than half Egwene's strength...
10/12/2010 04:27:30 PM
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couple of thoughts here
10/12/2010 08:01:44 PM
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Re: couple of thoughts here
10/12/2010 11:27:19 PM
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that's what I said! EDIT
11/12/2010 04:03:59 PM
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Well...
11/12/2010 07:58:38 PM
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Katerine is a pain in the ass and Silviana wasn't about to risk only one woman holding that shield
11/12/2010 08:26:29 PM
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Leane was shielded by two sisters as well
11/12/2010 11:14:08 PM
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I think that's almost certainly a custom for women held in the open cells
11/12/2010 11:22:12 PM
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Re: I think that's almost certainly a custom for women held in the open cells
12/12/2010 12:04:33 AM
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Oh... so we dismiss all quotes from people we don't like?
12/12/2010 05:18:42 AM
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re-read the section my friend. EDIT
12/12/2010 03:58:28 PM
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Dude...
12/12/2010 06:29:43 PM
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did you read the quote? They discuss how much they gave her on the way to the Tower!
12/12/2010 07:39:55 PM
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Not one of those things answers my rather simple question...
13/12/2010 02:27:44 AM
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because it's the first time Egwene has been dosed with Forkroot
13/12/2010 03:55:18 AM
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She knows but she doesn't know?
13/12/2010 05:35:55 AM
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She knows that Nynaeve had told her it dampened her ability
13/12/2010 05:13:23 PM
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And she doesn't know any details...
13/12/2010 07:19:12 PM
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this conversation is so pointless
13/12/2010 10:43:35 PM
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Yes. But since you continue to not answer the main question, necessary.
13/12/2010 11:24:24 PM
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Re: Yes. But since you continue to not answer the main question, necessary.
14/12/2010 11:06:55 AM
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Of course its obvious now!
14/12/2010 12:44:59 PM
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it was always obvious that to me. The first thing Egwene thinks is about what the drug does to her
18/12/2010 05:07:38 AM
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Shielding
13/12/2010 08:01:19 PM
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Practice. We do know that AS practice their weaves far more than WO
13/12/2010 10:50:09 PM
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Re: Practice. We do know that AS practice their weaves far more than WO
14/12/2010 04:25:20 AM
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There is, actually...
13/12/2010 11:28:42 PM
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Meh
14/12/2010 04:22:45 AM
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Well...
14/12/2010 04:37:50 AM
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Re: Well...
14/12/2010 10:52:55 AM
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of course Katerine is redundant! 2 women of Barasine and Katerine's strength
18/12/2010 05:00:50 AM
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Re: Amys is clearly stronger than half Egwene's strength...
11/12/2010 07:31:25 AM
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um, Elayne was in the process of bleeding to death and then had just been Healed
11/12/2010 03:50:27 PM
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astounding "evidence"
10/12/2010 09:58:47 PM
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Re: astounding "evidence"
11/12/2010 09:15:03 AM
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thanks
11/12/2010 03:54:54 PM
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Re: thanks
12/12/2010 12:49:52 PM
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We're not in disagreement for the most part
12/12/2010 04:23:02 PM
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Re: We're not in disagreement for the most part
12/12/2010 05:00:02 PM
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Actually in the AoL all AS who went over (50%) were refered to as Forsaken
12/12/2010 05:13:46 PM
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Re: Actually in the AoL all AS who went over (50%) were refered to as Forsaken
12/12/2010 06:35:02 PM
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All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen
12/12/2010 07:50:59 PM
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Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen
12/12/2010 11:05:58 PM
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Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen
12/12/2010 11:11:29 PM
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Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen
12/12/2010 11:14:47 PM
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I don't get the logic here...
09/12/2010 09:41:18 PM
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It doubles her strength. Nynaeve is only 50% stronger. So she only needs half of it to match Nynaeve
09/12/2010 09:46:42 PM
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And...?
09/12/2010 09:51:57 PM
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Personally, I thought it had something to do with not harming the babies.
09/12/2010 10:01:10 PM
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That was my interpretation too
10/12/2010 04:36:38 AM
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what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene
10/12/2010 04:12:34 PM
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The oaths proposal is after the jailhouse break in the timeline
10/12/2010 04:31:12 PM
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You are correct! So clearly worry about the babies was not a reason to not draw more
10/12/2010 05:05:30 PM
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Re: what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene
10/12/2010 04:41:25 PM
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Re: what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene
10/12/2010 05:02:10 PM
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and as a poster above points out the scene is AFTER she's stabbed
10/12/2010 05:07:17 PM
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Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken
10/12/2010 08:22:21 PM
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Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken
10/12/2010 08:33:25 PM
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Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken
10/12/2010 09:12:12 PM
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they can actually sense both which is how Elayne knows Nynaeve is not at full potential
10/12/2010 09:22:35 PM
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Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken
10/12/2010 09:31:13 PM
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Please note that Nynaeve has commented every time she's been around
10/12/2010 10:08:16 PM
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Re: Please note that Nynaeve has commented every time she's been around
10/12/2010 10:50:32 PM
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It's more than just fear of Moridin that makes her choose an attack from such a distance
10/12/2010 11:10:57 PM
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How is it that this the longest thread on this board? Is it even relevant in the least? *NM*
18/12/2010 02:53:22 PM
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Re: How is it that this the longest thread on this board? Is it even relevant in the least?
18/12/2010 08:21:24 PM
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Look at the topic. As if we needed evidence that Elayne is weaker than the Foresaken.
19/12/2010 04:41:25 AM
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