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Re: he means Sheriam, but your points still hold true Sidious Send a noteboard - 11/12/2010 07:21:49 AM
Mesaana's not as strong as Nynaeve, yet Sheriam is "astonished" by her strength ... hell Sharina is in the camp at this point and is stronger than Nynaeve! Sheriam had no reason to be "astonished" by this general level of strength!

Shannow consistently editorializes quotes to add dimensions that aren't there (such as "astonishment at Mesaana's immense strength" )... here's the actual quote he's referring to:

TGS
In Darkness

But nothing could be done now. Best to enjoy the peace of being free of both the beatings and Egwene's self-righteous pratings. Yes indeed. . . .

There was a woman with great strength in the Power standing outside her tent.

Sheriam snapped her eyes open. She could sense other women who could channel, just like any other sister. Bloody ashes! she thought nervously, squeezing her eyes shut. Not again!


There is no "astonishment" here ... merely a something Sheriam noted because she figured out she was about to get a thrashing.

Funny thing is Mesaana up until this point always masked her ability!


We're not totally sure this was Mesaana, though it almost certainly was. For argument's sake it might have been Cyndane.
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More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken Sidious - 09/12/2010 03:45:27 PM 3119 Views
Yes. Cannoli - 09/12/2010 04:39:58 PM 1454 Views
No. moratcorlm - 09/12/2010 05:34:57 PM 1304 Views
Indeed! *NM* darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 05:39:47 PM 719 Views
Actually...exponential or at least non-linear makes alot of sense to me Myrdhyn - 09/12/2010 06:27:29 PM 1237 Views
Nope. Then Rand would be able to crush 13 Aes Sedai with ease. Shannow - 09/12/2010 06:32:53 PM 1445 Views
Three things: Myrdhyn - 09/12/2010 06:47:30 PM 1237 Views
That quote is incorrect as it contradicts all other evidence from later books... Shannow - 09/12/2010 06:51:02 PM 1211 Views
If strength isn't linear and on a steep enough curve that could work. Myrdhyn - 09/12/2010 07:22:24 PM 1235 Views
I think that RJ's statement that the strongest man and strongest women were equal... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 10/12/2010 03:23:12 PM 1150 Views
I wasn't aware this was an issue? LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 04:45:02 PM 1245 Views
I just hope aMoL finally reveals who's going to be the Dragon Reborn...these lesser debates can hang *NM* Cannoli - 09/12/2010 05:26:37 PM 792 Views
*Spoiler* TGS and TOM revealed that Egwene is the DR. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 10/12/2010 07:57:53 PM 1036 Views
Agreed. Joel - 20/12/2010 01:17:32 AM 1330 Views
not really darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 04:46:42 PM 1231 Views
and you'll note that none of the angreal are considered particularly strong darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 04:48:14 PM 1183 Views
She probably weaved them separately on account of being pregnant *NM* Kieran - 09/12/2010 04:56:12 PM 771 Views
Pregnancy seems to be interfere with her ability to grasp the power darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 05:06:15 PM 1214 Views
I don't know if it's a more complex CHANNELING undertaking, though LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 05:42:57 PM 1121 Views
I don't have the book handy, but she talks about the level of complexity darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 05:45:52 PM 1235 Views
hmm, but we still don't know if it's the weaves or the process that is so complex LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 06:28:14 PM 1026 Views
Well according to Monaella it makes it harder to Channel, but from Elayne's POV darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 06:52:55 PM 1140 Views
Re: not really Zeratul - 09/12/2010 05:16:02 PM 1142 Views
Angreal have buffers moratcorlm - 09/12/2010 05:38:45 PM 1150 Views
none of them are very strong darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 05:38:49 PM 1140 Views
We never really get a feel for their relative strengths redqueen - 09/12/2010 05:51:38 PM 993 Views
Re: We never really get a feel for their relative strengths sleepinghour - 09/12/2010 10:00:23 PM 1284 Views
Exactly moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 09:36:52 AM 1322 Views
Yes. In PoD Aviendha states that the woman-wrapped-in-hair angreal almost doubles her strength... Shannow - 09/12/2010 06:30:41 PM 1173 Views
you have the wrong angreal and the wrong strength darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 07:07:18 PM 1143 Views
Nope. You are the one whose got the wrong angreal... Shannow - 09/12/2010 07:15:38 PM 961 Views
where is that quote my friend? darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 08:07:50 PM 1031 Views
PoD: The Breaking Storm Shannow - 09/12/2010 08:16:58 PM 963 Views
Ah yes, ... "almost 2x as much" still doesn't support your assertion that Nyn is 50% above Elayne darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 08:20:37 PM 1088 Views
That's a gross skewing of what that sentence means... Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:05:05 PM 1107 Views
Don't be absurd... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:21:00 PM 1118 Views
Yes, but does BS know that? Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:26:10 PM 1061 Views
Nonsense... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:45:17 PM 1106 Views
she does not say that! she says Moghedien could kill her before she could react. so could Daigian darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 09:34:50 PM 1219 Views
"The only Aes Sedai who could hope to match one of the Forsaken was in Ebou Dar..." Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:44:25 PM 1214 Views
And yet... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:48:34 PM 1139 Views
No, Egwene does NOT think she can defeat Mesaana in a One Power battle... Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:59:35 PM 1369 Views
Here are te quotes... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 10:10:09 PM 1140 Views
Did you not read the quote above, made by Egwene in the heat of battle with Mesaana? Shannow - 09/12/2010 10:34:05 PM 1170 Views
It might interest you to know that that was Katerine! fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 12:15:51 AM 961 Views
Oh nonsense Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:43:44 AM 1063 Views
But that's his point. Gher - 10/12/2010 06:01:59 AM 1072 Views
its a useless point Sidious - 10/12/2010 10:11:00 AM 1156 Views
Yes, utterly useless... Shannow - 10/12/2010 11:46:15 AM 1117 Views
Dude, you need to re-read the books... fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 04:15:11 PM 1057 Views
he means Sheriam, but your points still hold true darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 08:19:16 PM 1072 Views
Re: he means Sheriam, but your points still hold true Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:21:49 AM 1132 Views
potentially, but Mesaana later turns up with BA using the 19 stolen ter'angreal. darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 03:41:41 PM 1042 Views
I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there... fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 04:11:56 PM 1018 Views
Re: I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there... Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:35:23 PM 1087 Views
What? fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 11:19:57 PM 1112 Views
Re: What? Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:20:19 AM 1116 Views
Oh boohoo... fionwe1987 - 11/12/2010 07:55:58 PM 1138 Views
Duh! Seriously, are you Elaida or something? Your logic is astounding. fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 06:47:17 AM 987 Views
Duh! Seriously, are you Elaida or something? Your logic is astounding. fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 06:47:18 AM 1104 Views
which only tells us that Nynaeve is equal to the Forsaken. Has nothing to do with Egwene being darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 01:51:12 PM 954 Views
Nynaeve has been channeling (albeit blocked) for close to 10 years darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 02:24:57 PM 1191 Views
Think about the logic of what you're proposing... Shannow - 10/12/2010 02:39:56 PM 1133 Views
It's what's in the friggin books! darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 03:33:08 PM 1117 Views
Duplicate post - deleted *NM* Shannow - 09/12/2010 08:19:05 PM 559 Views
Re: Yes. moratcorlm - 09/12/2010 07:49:12 PM 1122 Views
You're obviously a latecomer to this ongoing debate. Here's a recap... Shannow - 09/12/2010 08:03:51 PM 1237 Views
where this falls apart is that Daigian at a 10 is too weak darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 08:16:17 PM 1181 Views
Nope... Shannow - 09/12/2010 08:44:51 PM 880 Views
now you are just force fitting quotes into what you want to say darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 09:29:20 PM 976 Views
Nope... Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:42:58 PM 1069 Views
all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 08:04:02 PM 1122 Views
Re: all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW sleepinghour - 11/12/2010 11:59:55 PM 1055 Views
that's the point I'm making darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 12:58:38 AM 927 Views
I don't think Elayne was forced Zeratul - 12/12/2010 04:33:26 PM 1086 Views
I believe there is a quote from RJ that states they all were, but Egwene was held damane darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 04:43:29 PM 866 Views
Re: I believe there is a quote from RJ that states they all were, but Egwene was held damane darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 04:46:50 PM 1105 Views
Thanks for the quote Zeratul - 12/12/2010 07:17:30 PM 1168 Views
perhaps the opportunity hasn't arisen? And of course it's politic to appologize to the Amyrlin darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 07:41:11 PM 1066 Views
Re: all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW sleepinghour - 12/12/2010 08:04:21 PM 1094 Views
that's where I'm estimating Nynaeve being close to Siuan and Moiraine in EoTW darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 08:30:54 PM 1071 Views
Re: now you are just force fitting quotes into what you want to say sleepinghour - 10/12/2010 01:17:10 AM 1267 Views
nope darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 02:05:00 PM 1202 Views
Mesaana Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:43:07 AM 968 Views
agreed darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 01:48:59 PM 1035 Views
Re: agreed Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:38:28 PM 906 Views
very true, and I find it interesting that during the TAR battle Mesaana didn't bother darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 05:03:43 PM 973 Views
Re: very true, and I find it interesting that during the TAR battle Mesaana didn't bother Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:22:54 AM 1142 Views
yes and no darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 03:47:28 PM 1109 Views
Re: You're obviously a latecomer to this ongoing debate. Here's a recap... moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 09:19:17 AM 1148 Views
OK. Here's the clear evidence of Dagian's, Moiraine's, Egwenes and Moghedien's comparative levels. Shannow - 10/12/2010 12:00:48 PM 1012 Views
"clear evidence" moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 01:27:01 PM 1085 Views
Laughable interpretation... Shannow - 10/12/2010 01:31:57 PM 1104 Views
Re: Laughable interpretation... moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 03:34:01 PM 1124 Views
Amys is clearly stronger than half Egwene's strength... fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 04:27:30 PM 1072 Views
Doesn't the forkroot explain that? *NM* Gher - 10/12/2010 04:47:53 PM 751 Views
couple of thoughts here darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 08:01:44 PM 1102 Views
Re: couple of thoughts here fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 11:27:19 PM 1027 Views
that's what I said! EDIT darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 04:03:59 PM 915 Views
Well... fionwe1987 - 11/12/2010 07:58:38 PM 1128 Views
Katerine is a pain in the ass and Silviana wasn't about to risk only one woman holding that shield darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 08:26:29 PM 972 Views
Leane was shielded by two sisters as well sleepinghour - 11/12/2010 11:14:08 PM 997 Views
I think that's almost certainly a custom for women held in the open cells darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 11:22:12 PM 1009 Views
Re: I think that's almost certainly a custom for women held in the open cells sleepinghour - 12/12/2010 12:04:33 AM 1115 Views
I agree with that completely. darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 01:03:54 AM 1043 Views
Oh... so we dismiss all quotes from people we don't like? fionwe1987 - 12/12/2010 05:18:42 AM 1117 Views
re-read the section my friend. EDIT darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 03:58:28 PM 1010 Views
Dude... fionwe1987 - 12/12/2010 06:29:43 PM 991 Views
did you read the quote? They discuss how much they gave her on the way to the Tower! darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 07:39:55 PM 1065 Views
Not one of those things answers my rather simple question... fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 02:27:44 AM 1071 Views
because it's the first time Egwene has been dosed with Forkroot darius_sedai - 13/12/2010 03:55:18 AM 1019 Views
She knows but she doesn't know? fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 05:35:55 AM 1085 Views
She knows that Nynaeve had told her it dampened her ability darius_sedai - 13/12/2010 05:13:23 PM 1023 Views
And she doesn't know any details... fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 07:19:12 PM 1030 Views
this conversation is so pointless darius_sedai - 13/12/2010 10:43:35 PM 886 Views
Yes. But since you continue to not answer the main question, necessary. fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 11:24:24 PM 905 Views
Re: Yes. But since you continue to not answer the main question, necessary. Sidious - 14/12/2010 11:06:55 AM 927 Views
Of course its obvious now! fionwe1987 - 14/12/2010 12:44:59 PM 1119 Views
it was always obvious that to me. The first thing Egwene thinks is about what the drug does to her darius_sedai - 18/12/2010 05:07:38 AM 966 Views
Shielding Sidious - 13/12/2010 08:01:19 PM 2482 Views
Practice. We do know that AS practice their weaves far more than WO darius_sedai - 13/12/2010 10:50:09 PM 1071 Views
Re: Practice. We do know that AS practice their weaves far more than WO Sidious - 14/12/2010 04:25:20 AM 1188 Views
There is, actually... fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 11:28:42 PM 973 Views
Meh Sidious - 14/12/2010 04:22:45 AM 1068 Views
Well... fionwe1987 - 14/12/2010 04:37:50 AM 1100 Views
Re: Well... Sidious - 14/12/2010 10:52:55 AM 1073 Views
Tell Darius that... fionwe1987 - 14/12/2010 12:47:19 PM 997 Views
of course Katerine is redundant! 2 women of Barasine and Katerine's strength darius_sedai - 18/12/2010 05:00:50 AM 972 Views
Re: Amys is clearly stronger than half Egwene's strength... Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:31:25 AM 1210 Views
um, Elayne was in the process of bleeding to death and then had just been Healed darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 03:50:27 PM 1102 Views
You forget... fionwe1987 - 11/12/2010 08:02:03 PM 1133 Views
astounding "evidence" darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 09:58:47 PM 1121 Views
Re: astounding "evidence" The_Archer - 11/12/2010 09:15:03 AM 1133 Views
thanks darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 03:54:54 PM 1266 Views
Re: thanks The_Archer - 12/12/2010 12:49:52 PM 968 Views
We're not in disagreement for the most part darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 04:23:02 PM 961 Views
Re: We're not in disagreement for the most part The_Archer - 12/12/2010 05:00:02 PM 1066 Views
Actually in the AoL all AS who went over (50%) were refered to as Forsaken darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 05:13:46 PM 1085 Views
Re: Actually in the AoL all AS who went over (50%) were refered to as Forsaken The_Archer - 12/12/2010 06:35:02 PM 1059 Views
All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 07:50:59 PM 1054 Views
Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen The_Archer - 12/12/2010 11:05:58 PM 1116 Views
Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen The_Archer - 12/12/2010 11:11:29 PM 1021 Views
Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen The_Archer - 12/12/2010 11:14:47 PM 1083 Views
I don't get the logic here... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:41:18 PM 1113 Views
which was one of my first thoughts in reading the scene! *NM* darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 09:43:54 PM 818 Views
It doubles her strength. Nynaeve is only 50% stronger. So she only needs half of it to match Nynaeve Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:46:42 PM 1069 Views
And...? fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:51:57 PM 1073 Views
Personally, I thought it had something to do with not harming the babies. Shannow - 09/12/2010 10:01:10 PM 979 Views
That was my interpretation too Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:36:38 AM 1022 Views
Re: That was my interpretation too moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 09:31:12 AM 1174 Views
what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 04:12:34 PM 1143 Views
The oaths proposal is after the jailhouse break in the timeline Zeratul - 10/12/2010 04:31:12 PM 1013 Views
*Double post, please delete* *NM* Zeratul - 10/12/2010 04:35:54 PM 656 Views
You are correct! So clearly worry about the babies was not a reason to not draw more darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 05:05:30 PM 1009 Views
And... fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 04:32:28 PM 1037 Views
Re: what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:41:25 PM 1036 Views
Re: what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 05:02:10 PM 1050 Views
and as a poster above points out the scene is AFTER she's stabbed darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 05:07:17 PM 1082 Views
Yes, I did know that. moratcorlm - 11/12/2010 04:06:00 PM 1067 Views
meant that response to go to Sidious ... sorry! darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 08:44:40 PM 1129 Views
Oops. *NM* moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 07:15:57 PM 713 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken The_Archer - 10/12/2010 08:22:21 PM 984 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken sleepinghour - 10/12/2010 08:33:25 PM 1066 Views
We have very little to go on with the FS strengths... darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 09:04:33 PM 1141 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken The_Archer - 10/12/2010 09:12:12 PM 951 Views
they can actually sense both which is how Elayne knows Nynaeve is not at full potential darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 09:22:35 PM 1105 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken The_Archer - 10/12/2010 09:31:13 PM 1124 Views
Please note that Nynaeve has commented every time she's been around darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 10:08:16 PM 1014 Views
Re: Please note that Nynaeve has commented every time she's been around The_Archer - 10/12/2010 10:50:32 PM 1129 Views
It's more than just fear of Moridin that makes her choose an attack from such a distance darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 11:10:57 PM 997 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken sleepinghour - 10/12/2010 10:50:20 PM 1100 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:29:30 AM 1266 Views
Help im new! The_Archer - 13/12/2010 07:41:04 PM 1129 Views
Re: More evidence you haven't been paying attention. The Angry Druid - 13/12/2010 09:56:45 PM 1224 Views
Re: More evidence you haven't been paying attention. The_Archer - 13/12/2010 10:50:25 PM 1029 Views
How is it that this the longest thread on this board? Is it even relevant in the least? *NM* Lord Haart - 18/12/2010 02:53:22 PM 731 Views
Re: How is it that this the longest thread on this board? Is it even relevant in the least? Sidious - 18/12/2010 08:21:24 PM 1013 Views
Look at the topic. As if we needed evidence that Elayne is weaker than the Foresaken. Lord Haart - 19/12/2010 04:41:25 AM 1016 Views
you misread the topic Sidious - 19/12/2010 05:30:26 AM 1141 Views
But the debate is moronic because... fionwe1987 - 19/12/2010 05:43:07 AM 1000 Views
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