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Bah! As if an opinion on the test's validity can be wrong *NM* Sidious Send a noteboard - 10/12/2010 04:39:14 AM
Dude, you need to back down and relax a little. Really your obsession with this series and the moral connections you make to posters based on what little you read about them is off-putting. You're looking for depth in characters that doesn't exist, especially in a series with such limited character development. You take everything way too seriously.
Oh, please. That's all I get from everyone else. This is one of the first times I have drawn an inference on anyone's character and as I pointed out, it is part of a long-standing ongoing issue in your posts.

You also make assumptions that aren't true, like the fact that I prioritize channeling over children's suffering which is not true at all. The point of the post is not to discuss morality but to discuss why Nynaeve can't obey the rules of a simple test taking place in a ter'angreal. Like other posters you are distracted by the illusions of the test and allow them to defeat you.
They are not illusions - they are intended to be taken as real to ascertain what choice the test subject would make in that situation. The Tower demands that the sisters blindly choose a Tower directive with no tangible point to it and no understanding of the benefits, if any, that proceed from their choice. And that is wrong. While you are right that they are not doing evil in choosing the requirements of the test over the imaginary innocents, the criterion the Tower tests for IS evil. Why have a test if you are going to simply encourage the sisters to ignore the mindset the test requires them to act on?

This is not a matter of seeing depth that is not there, it is extrapolating from a number of data exposed about the Tower and sisters. There is ample evidence that sisters are required to choose the Tower over literally anything else. Cadsuane says explicitly the good of the Tower is supposed to be the driving motivation behind their actions. Faile has numerous historical examples of Aes Sedai turning on their own families or personal feelings for the benefit of the Tower and its agenda. And here we have a test whose "rules" state that an aspiring sister must prove her ability to uphold the Tower's image and pointless rules. And the pointlessness IS the point. The sole value of those weaves is that the Tower demands their initiates perform them. THAT is the choice the Tower "demands of its daughters" that they do something that has no inherent value or interest to anyone at all, and do that thing only because the Tower told them to, regardless of anything else.

You need to channel 100 weaves while they throw everything from dying babies to your tortured spouse at you. Where's the moral dilemma? Its not real! Weave your stuff and gain the shawl and then go out into the real world and be moral. Its not about status or rank or morality. Its about being intelligent enough to not allow a ter'angreal to stop you from weaving a hundred weaves just because it pulls at your heartstrings. And that is why Nynaeve is a failure...
No, that's why you're an idiot. She passed because of her singular ability to slough off the test. Her failure is NOT her inability to distinguish illusions, because she bettered everyone else at that. The test is one of priorities, not discerning reality, and that is why they were upset. Nynaeve's strength and accomplishments mean the only control they have on her is her loyalty to the Tower and prioritizing its agenda, and she has just proven that holds no weight for her against her personal concerns.
Because she's too dense to dissociate herself from a fake test and a real life test of her character.
Why don't you point out even ONE example of Moiraine realizing that her test is all fake and prove your absurd contention of the nature of those tests. YOURS is completely unsupported, but you have the temerity to claim I am the one seeing things that are not there?

And that's the benefit of the test, its cuts out all the idiots who can't just walk to a star without cracking up because there's a weave of Fire and Air showing their dead lover.
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This message last edited by Sidious on 10/12/2010 at 04:39:29 AM
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Nynaeve's stupidity and the test for Aes Sedai Sidious - 07/12/2010 08:27:05 PM 4290 Views
Just like all women. Great Lord of Chaos - 07/12/2010 09:15:12 PM 1175 Views
Way to totally misunderstand the chapter Icarium - 07/12/2010 09:39:08 PM 1651 Views
I second this redhand - 07/12/2010 10:10:24 PM 1347 Views
your bold is stuck. *NM* LadyLorraine - 07/12/2010 10:21:22 PM 575 Views
He BOLDLY seconded it... *NM* HyogaRott - 08/12/2010 03:04:33 PM 551 Views
which is quite excellent. I was just leting him know *NM* LadyLorraine - 08/12/2010 03:28:24 PM 457 Views
I think that statement says it all. LadyLorraine - 07/12/2010 10:19:50 PM 1379 Views
Thanks. That's exactly what I think. ˥ɐ ʎpu∀ɹ - 08/12/2010 08:29:28 AM 1246 Views
+1, well said *NM* Lord Haart - 08/12/2010 11:19:29 AM 513 Views
Agrees *NM* Onarishma - 09/12/2010 03:27:53 PM 952 Views
Yes, the OP totally whiffed here. Nyn couldn't remember.. The Angry Druid - 11/12/2010 01:50:11 AM 1192 Views
On the whole, the test is innappropriate IMO DomA - 07/12/2010 09:40:08 PM 1469 Views
I agree with this entirely *NM* LadyLorraine - 07/12/2010 10:07:52 PM 509 Views
very well said *NM* darius_sedai - 07/12/2010 10:23:06 PM 459 Views
It's kind of a chicken and egg thing BlackAdder - 07/12/2010 11:13:19 PM 1122 Views
Re: It's kind of a chicken and egg thing DomA - 08/12/2010 12:37:20 AM 1410 Views
nice post Sidious - 08/12/2010 09:20:02 AM 1242 Views
Isn't it implied guttering flame - 08/12/2010 02:16:58 PM 1007 Views
no they were students together darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 05:33:17 PM 959 Views
No, Lanfear was older than Lews guttering flame - 08/12/2010 07:21:45 PM 1182 Views
Where on earth did you get that from? darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 08:41:16 PM 1110 Views
Re: Where on earth did you get that from? DomA - 09/12/2010 10:27:20 AM 1118 Views
Re: Where on earth did you get that from? Sidious - 09/12/2010 03:56:32 PM 1192 Views
I always got the impression that they were together for quiet some time darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 04:34:23 PM 1140 Views
Re: I always got the impression that they were together for quiet some time moratcorlm - 09/12/2010 05:43:40 PM 1116 Views
I think skill with Saidar is easy enough to judge as it's a simple matter to see the skill darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 05:37:27 PM 1041 Views
I think the greens should have been on Nynaeve's side as well LadyLorraine - 08/12/2010 06:18:16 PM 1161 Views
Problem is they are Aes Sedai and thus more likley to be political rather than rational! *NM* darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 08:52:00 PM 810 Views
too f'n true *NM* LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 12:17:58 AM 519 Views
Re: nice post DomA - 09/12/2010 01:23:50 PM 1224 Views
On the matter of strength guttering flame - 09/12/2010 08:51:36 PM 1063 Views
Re: On the matter of strength Timthetrolloc - 10/12/2010 10:38:42 AM 1061 Views
Strength was "prized" in the AoL ... but lack of strength was not a negative darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 01:41:08 AM 1025 Views
The test is stupid and it was about time someone pointed it out Zeratul - 07/12/2010 10:29:38 PM 1063 Views
Channeling under duress IS necessary for ALL Aes Sedai Urbannen - 05/01/2011 12:04:53 AM 1170 Views
Well BlackAdder - 07/12/2010 11:03:38 PM 1106 Views
Yes. How dare she not conform with every other fucking mindless stupid WT Aes Sedai *NM* Variant - 07/12/2010 11:36:52 PM 656 Views
Status is not an end in itself. *NM* Chas - 07/12/2010 11:52:37 PM 528 Views
They're not really stupid... DomA - 08/12/2010 01:00:20 AM 1140 Views
Not saying they are. It's just that most AS that we've come across Chas - 08/12/2010 02:20:05 AM 840 Views
They're constantly outsmarted by a teenage girl that has spent most of her life in a damn farm. Variant - 08/12/2010 10:32:50 AM 1125 Views
yeah because that's so realistic Sidious - 08/12/2010 12:17:29 PM 1073 Views
Egwene had everything handed to her on a silver platter. Variant - 08/12/2010 11:50:17 PM 1048 Views
Bah... DomA - 09/12/2010 10:56:24 AM 1159 Views
Nope, the Sitters were always stupid Zeratul - 09/12/2010 12:37:05 PM 1090 Views
I did not say all Aes Sedai are stupid, I said all WT Aes Sedai are stupid. Variant - 10/12/2010 09:19:52 AM 1122 Views
cause being rural automatically makes you dumb?..... *NM* Onarishma - 09/12/2010 05:34:11 PM 594 Views
It makes you uneducated moratcorlm - 09/12/2010 05:46:49 PM 1014 Views
You are not only wrong in your call, Fanatic-Templar - 08/12/2010 04:39:44 AM 1336 Views
Re: You are not only wrong in your call, Sidious - 08/12/2010 09:13:37 AM 1354 Views
if that is the purpose of the test LadyLorraine - 08/12/2010 01:34:45 PM 1063 Views
minor disagreement darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 05:27:51 PM 1138 Views
Yes, but you can be not-panicked and not calm of body LadyLorraine - 08/12/2010 06:38:56 PM 963 Views
not really the same thing as what the AS are getting at though darius_sedai - 08/12/2010 09:02:05 PM 1613 Views
that's retarded, imo LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 12:21:27 AM 1089 Views
About Elaida... Zeratul - 09/12/2010 12:29:21 PM 1058 Views
...no wonder the Aes Sedai are floundering LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 01:43:42 PM 865 Views
Oh it's totally stupid! darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 04:37:14 PM 1109 Views
No I know why she took the job. I just don't understand why she got it LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 04:52:34 PM 1051 Views
I think Elaida just smarmed up at the right time, Morgase was very young then darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 05:52:29 PM 1101 Views
hmm. curse smarming, then *NM* LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 07:47:26 PM 459 Views
As I recall... Fanatic-Templar - 10/12/2010 05:18:25 AM 1077 Views
Oh. Well, I'm sorry then. Fanatic-Templar - 08/12/2010 06:48:50 PM 1112 Views
I think it has already been established that the purpose of the test is to ensure that Chas - 08/12/2010 09:59:18 PM 855 Views
Yeah, but how does that work? Fanatic-Templar - 08/12/2010 10:24:35 PM 1016 Views
Somewhere in the sub-conscious they know what they're doing is important to them. Chas - 09/12/2010 12:20:47 AM 1127 Views
Even so, it wouldn't work. Fanatic-Templar - 09/12/2010 03:32:55 AM 1040 Views
I think if this thread has established anything it's that the test is severely flawed. *NM* Chas - 09/12/2010 09:24:48 PM 503 Views
Another headless chicken example. Chas - 09/12/2010 12:30:02 AM 1023 Views
the headless chicken is just such a lovely metaphor for panic *NM* LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 04:48:11 AM 460 Views
Re: Oh. Well, I'm sorry then. Sidious - 09/12/2010 12:07:15 PM 1112 Views
Re: Oh. Well, I'm sorry then. Fanatic-Templar - 10/12/2010 05:32:27 AM 1181 Views
The main difference guttering flame - 10/12/2010 05:50:43 AM 1043 Views
I'm not sure I agree. Skeeve the Great - 08/12/2010 12:17:12 PM 1111 Views
You seem to have no grasp of the difference between "politic" and "right" Cannoli - 09/12/2010 02:59:50 AM 1167 Views
I hate it when I love you just a little *NM* LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 04:46:57 AM 492 Views
Re: You seem to have no grasp of the difference between "politic" and "right" Sidious - 09/12/2010 09:26:21 AM 1075 Views
That's not the dilema Cannoli - 09/12/2010 05:23:19 PM 1262 Views
One of those few times where I completely agree with Cannoli. Give over Sidious. You're wrong. fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:55:20 PM 1055 Views
Bah! As if an opinion on the test's validity can be wrong *NM* Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:39:14 AM 1186 Views
That's not what it's really about guttering flame - 10/12/2010 05:44:12 AM 1020 Views
The paralells are not obvious to me... Cannoli - 15/12/2010 11:42:51 AM 1103 Views
More like guttering flame - 15/12/2010 01:26:40 PM 1017 Views
This test, even by its usual abysmal standards, was idiotic. It bordered on being evil. fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 03:46:31 AM 1020 Views
Re: This test, even by its usual abysmal standards, was idiotic. It bordered on being evil. Sidious - 09/12/2010 09:40:09 AM 1114 Views
Re: This test, even by its usual abysmal standards, was idiotic. It bordered on being evil. fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 02:04:02 PM 1418 Views
Re: This test, even by its usual abysmal standards, was idiotic. It bordered on being evil. DomA - 09/12/2010 11:26:40 AM 1144 Views
Agreed... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 01:54:09 PM 1056 Views
One of those few times where I completely agree with fionwe1987. Give over Sidious. You're wrong. Cannoli - 10/12/2010 03:53:25 PM 1122 Views
no, she did not disagree. slight difference LadyLorraine - 10/12/2010 05:53:54 PM 993 Views
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