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I think skill with Saidar is easy enough to judge as it's a simple matter to see the skill darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 08/12/2010 05:37:27 PM
It's a good test for all Green Sisters, let's say, but it's pretty off to test Greys and even more Whites and Browns, and most Yellows. Most of these women will go through their whole career without ever being faced with channelling in conditions of extreme stress like this.

This test must have deprived the Tower over the millenia of a huge number of extremely talented weavers who were just ill-equipped to deal with extreme stress, or who couldn't shut off all their emotions no matter the situation they face. Not everyone has the mental aptitudes to be a warrior, or a block of ice. The whole obsession with "serenity" is also dangerous because it's pushed way too far, beyond the ability to keep control and a clear mind . It's by and large the image the WT wants the sisters to project, that nothing ruffles them. It's superficial and artificial; sisters cannot gain a reputation for their skills and their service to the world anymore, so they compensate this by acting publicly as if they were demi-goddesses, unemotional about everything. Send the Healers to the cities as Elayne wants, and you'll soon see people start to value Aes Sedai again, and find them wondrous for the right reasons, not because they project an artifical aura of demi-godhood!

It even contributes to the overall bad reputation of Aes Sedai, whatever happens, they look like they don't care (happened even to the best, like Moiraine, Verin and co. Their lack of emotions in situations that calls for emotional responses don't make them look above the mêlée but lacking in basic human skills).

Anyway... this test originates in the Trolloc Wars, when the situation called for something like this. Sisters who couldn't pass this test were a danger outside the Tower. To themselves, but above all to the armies they were sent with. It makes sense to use this test for sisters, if you want to go through mass raisings before TG, and decide which women don't have the aptitudes or attitude to cope with combat.

As the sole universal test to determine sisterhood or rejection, it's inept. To me, it's like a test that would judge if someone can or can't be a brain surgeon, and the outcome if you fail is that thrown out of the medical field for the rest of your life...

A great deal of this is the result of the WT obsessing with the sisters "holding up its reputation", because with the WOS the AS Guild had lost the reveration of the people, and the post Breaking Tower chose the wrong path to regain it, increasing its power as an organization instead of focussing on making themselves so useful again that they'd be as valued as they once were again.

I'm kind of convinced in the AOL the Aes Sedai were far more obsessed with their own who showed selfish or inappropriate behaviour (Semirhage being just an extreme case) than they were obsessed about "standards" and "serenity", beyond the fact everyone had to pass general channelling training to gain the title (inept channellers are a danger, better do nothing with their poor skills than risk them causing harm). Nowadays, there are women calling themselves Yellows with little healing ability, because they believe the role of the AS is to heal the world... That's ridiculous... all Suana was interested in with Egwene is her strength, which equated with high standing in the hierarchy, and her strength of will. She was looking to get a new future Romanda for the Yellow, and deprive the other ajahs of that same woman. That's today's Tower.






I think the problem facing the Tower is how to prove that a woman has proficiency with saidar to the point that she can be raised. It is unfortunate that they chose combat as the sole 'subject' for these women. However, I don't think emphasis on serenity is a total waste. Ideally I'd raise a woman using the interrogation they used on Egwene in KoD... Make her demonstrate her abilities, and also her knowledge of the Power. As you say, many whites never see these situations but I don't find it unlikely that Sarene was grateful for her test after the Cleansing.

I wonder how they raised people in the AOL? Rand refers to himself being properly raised.


The Serenity part of the test is rather silly for most AS ... how often have most AS found themselves in these situations?

Personally I think the Testing should be an Ajah specific situation. It's clear that most women are guided as Accepted to the appropriate Ajah.

Seems Nynaeve's reactions are true to the Yellows mission (thus Romanda passed her), but perhaps the Greens/Reds/Blues who are more aggressive in their missions need a woman who will put on a more calm facade in such situations.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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Nynaeve's stupidity and the test for Aes Sedai - 07/12/2010 08:27:05 PM 4290 Views
Just like all women. - 07/12/2010 09:15:12 PM 1173 Views
Way to totally misunderstand the chapter - 07/12/2010 09:39:08 PM 1649 Views
I second this - 07/12/2010 10:10:24 PM 1346 Views
your bold is stuck. *NM* - 07/12/2010 10:21:22 PM 575 Views
He BOLDLY seconded it... *NM* - 08/12/2010 03:04:33 PM 551 Views
which is quite excellent. I was just leting him know *NM* - 08/12/2010 03:28:24 PM 457 Views
I think that statement says it all. - 07/12/2010 10:19:50 PM 1379 Views
Thanks. That's exactly what I think. - 08/12/2010 08:29:28 AM 1246 Views
+1, well said *NM* - 08/12/2010 11:19:29 AM 513 Views
Agrees *NM* - 09/12/2010 03:27:53 PM 950 Views
Yes, the OP totally whiffed here. Nyn couldn't remember.. - 11/12/2010 01:50:11 AM 1191 Views
On the whole, the test is innappropriate IMO - 07/12/2010 09:40:08 PM 1469 Views
I agree with this entirely *NM* - 07/12/2010 10:07:52 PM 509 Views
very well said *NM* - 07/12/2010 10:23:06 PM 459 Views
It's kind of a chicken and egg thing - 07/12/2010 11:13:19 PM 1120 Views
Re: It's kind of a chicken and egg thing - 08/12/2010 12:37:20 AM 1409 Views
nice post - 08/12/2010 09:20:02 AM 1241 Views
Isn't it implied - 08/12/2010 02:16:58 PM 1007 Views
no they were students together - 08/12/2010 05:33:17 PM 959 Views
No, Lanfear was older than Lews - 08/12/2010 07:21:45 PM 1180 Views
Where on earth did you get that from? - 08/12/2010 08:41:16 PM 1110 Views
Re: Where on earth did you get that from? - 09/12/2010 10:27:20 AM 1117 Views
Re: Where on earth did you get that from? - 09/12/2010 03:56:32 PM 1190 Views
I always got the impression that they were together for quiet some time - 09/12/2010 04:34:23 PM 1140 Views
I think skill with Saidar is easy enough to judge as it's a simple matter to see the skill - 08/12/2010 05:37:27 PM 1040 Views
I think the greens should have been on Nynaeve's side as well - 08/12/2010 06:18:16 PM 1159 Views
Problem is they are Aes Sedai and thus more likley to be political rather than rational! *NM* - 08/12/2010 08:52:00 PM 810 Views
too f'n true *NM* - 09/12/2010 12:17:58 AM 519 Views
Re: nice post - 09/12/2010 01:23:50 PM 1223 Views
On the matter of strength - 09/12/2010 08:51:36 PM 1062 Views
Re: On the matter of strength - 10/12/2010 10:38:42 AM 1061 Views
Strength was "prized" in the AoL ... but lack of strength was not a negative - 12/12/2010 01:41:08 AM 1025 Views
The test is stupid and it was about time someone pointed it out - 07/12/2010 10:29:38 PM 1061 Views
Channeling under duress IS necessary for ALL Aes Sedai - 05/01/2011 12:04:53 AM 1170 Views
Well - 07/12/2010 11:03:38 PM 1105 Views
Status is not an end in itself. *NM* - 07/12/2010 11:52:37 PM 528 Views
They're not really stupid... - 08/12/2010 01:00:20 AM 1138 Views
They're constantly outsmarted by a teenage girl that has spent most of her life in a damn farm. - 08/12/2010 10:32:50 AM 1125 Views
yeah because that's so realistic - 08/12/2010 12:17:29 PM 1072 Views
Egwene had everything handed to her on a silver platter. - 08/12/2010 11:50:17 PM 1048 Views
Bah... - 09/12/2010 10:56:24 AM 1159 Views
Nope, the Sitters were always stupid - 09/12/2010 12:37:05 PM 1088 Views
cause being rural automatically makes you dumb?..... *NM* - 09/12/2010 05:34:11 PM 594 Views
It makes you uneducated - 09/12/2010 05:46:49 PM 1014 Views
You are not only wrong in your call, - 08/12/2010 04:39:44 AM 1336 Views
Re: You are not only wrong in your call, - 08/12/2010 09:13:37 AM 1353 Views
if that is the purpose of the test - 08/12/2010 01:34:45 PM 1062 Views
minor disagreement - 08/12/2010 05:27:51 PM 1137 Views
Yes, but you can be not-panicked and not calm of body - 08/12/2010 06:38:56 PM 961 Views
not really the same thing as what the AS are getting at though - 08/12/2010 09:02:05 PM 1611 Views
that's retarded, imo - 09/12/2010 12:21:27 AM 1088 Views
About Elaida... - 09/12/2010 12:29:21 PM 1058 Views
...no wonder the Aes Sedai are floundering - 09/12/2010 01:43:42 PM 863 Views
Oh it's totally stupid! - 09/12/2010 04:37:14 PM 1107 Views
No I know why she took the job. I just don't understand why she got it - 09/12/2010 04:52:34 PM 1050 Views
I think Elaida just smarmed up at the right time, Morgase was very young then - 09/12/2010 05:52:29 PM 1100 Views
hmm. curse smarming, then *NM* - 09/12/2010 07:47:26 PM 459 Views
As I recall... - 10/12/2010 05:18:25 AM 1076 Views
Oh. Well, I'm sorry then. - 08/12/2010 06:48:50 PM 1112 Views
I think it has already been established that the purpose of the test is to ensure that - 08/12/2010 09:59:18 PM 855 Views
Yeah, but how does that work? - 08/12/2010 10:24:35 PM 1016 Views
Somewhere in the sub-conscious they know what they're doing is important to them. - 09/12/2010 12:20:47 AM 1125 Views
Even so, it wouldn't work. - 09/12/2010 03:32:55 AM 1040 Views
Another headless chicken example. - 09/12/2010 12:30:02 AM 1022 Views
the headless chicken is just such a lovely metaphor for panic *NM* - 09/12/2010 04:48:11 AM 460 Views
Re: Oh. Well, I'm sorry then. - 09/12/2010 12:07:15 PM 1111 Views
Re: Oh. Well, I'm sorry then. - 10/12/2010 05:32:27 AM 1181 Views
The main difference - 10/12/2010 05:50:43 AM 1041 Views
I'm not sure I agree. - 08/12/2010 12:17:12 PM 1110 Views
You seem to have no grasp of the difference between "politic" and "right" - 09/12/2010 02:59:50 AM 1165 Views
I hate it when I love you just a little *NM* - 09/12/2010 04:46:57 AM 492 Views
Re: You seem to have no grasp of the difference between "politic" and "right" - 09/12/2010 09:26:21 AM 1074 Views
That's not the dilema - 09/12/2010 05:23:19 PM 1262 Views
That's not what it's really about - 10/12/2010 05:44:12 AM 1019 Views
The paralells are not obvious to me... - 15/12/2010 11:42:51 AM 1102 Views
More like - 15/12/2010 01:26:40 PM 1017 Views

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