Nynaeve made a lot of serious errors in the chapter where she was raised to the shawl. It's always been difficult to keep up with Nynaeve's impulsive behaviour, and if she wasn't one of the strongest women on earth, I doubt she would have amounted to anything. The entire chapter displays how ridiculous her thought processes are.
The first mistake Nynaeve made was to break the rules of an exam. We all hate exams but only a moron challenges the rules on the day of the test. Most especially, Aes Sedai are renowned for how picky they can be with the test and how easily you can be put out of the Tower. Nynaeve starts by saying lines that aren't part of tradition. That alone could have ended the test for all she knew. All of us know how inane exam customs can be, but you follow them to reach the end point so that you can get on with your life.
After that Nynaeve carried on breaking rules. She was told not to run between the stars, and not to channel before she reached them, and she did both. After the test she initiates a saccharin speech about morality and the higher purpose that apparently silences all the Sitters (yeah right). The point of the test is to prove that the woman can remain calm and achieve a higher purpose in the face of extreme stress, which Nynaeve cannot do. The fact that Nynaeve wants to rescue children and other suffering people when she's exposed to them makes her a serious risk to a higher purpose. All the Shadow has to do to someone like Nynaeve is exploit a weakness like this, whereas a true Aes Sedai should technically be immune to this type of temptation. If Cyndane sees Nynaeve protecting Rand, all she needs to do is break Mat's legs and leave him bleeding at the bottom of the hill... Nynaeve would abandon all higher purposes and run to help him. Morally she can't be touched, but she's an utter failure in a test where the rules are explicitly stated prior to starting, and in the broader spectrum of life where a higher purpose really can be worth the death and suffering of others.
I've never thought that the test for Aes Sedai is bad. I actually think its ideal. Channeling under extreme stress is almost all that matters when someone who can wield something as deadly as the OP and is relied upon by the general populace, is raised. Consider a channeler who is in a palace and knows that she is about to be balefired and she needs to weave a gateway calmly to escape. What use is a woman who fumbles for the Source (as incidentally did happen)? What use is a woman who is disabled with fear when 100,000 Trollocs attack the manor house?
My only gripes with the test are the following...
1. It can be fatal. I find this unacceptable in a test. It should be based on illusion and have safeguards against serious injury or death.
2. Failure means being put out of the Tower. If a woman cannot channel under extreme stress, she needs to be moulded further until she can handle the situations. Its like being forbidden to drive forever if you fail your driving test. Some people just need that second chance.
Nynaeve rattled the saber because of her childish and belligerent attitude towards other Aes Sedai. She should have failed the test because she still cannot do what Cadsuane said of her in WH... learn to endure things even if it wasn't necessary. She breaks rules whenever she doesn't agree with them or reacts with hostility. She's an atypical Aes Sedai, which Rand likes, but ultimately I think she's erratic and unreliable as a channeler.
The first mistake Nynaeve made was to break the rules of an exam. We all hate exams but only a moron challenges the rules on the day of the test. Most especially, Aes Sedai are renowned for how picky they can be with the test and how easily you can be put out of the Tower. Nynaeve starts by saying lines that aren't part of tradition. That alone could have ended the test for all she knew. All of us know how inane exam customs can be, but you follow them to reach the end point so that you can get on with your life.
After that Nynaeve carried on breaking rules. She was told not to run between the stars, and not to channel before she reached them, and she did both. After the test she initiates a saccharin speech about morality and the higher purpose that apparently silences all the Sitters (yeah right). The point of the test is to prove that the woman can remain calm and achieve a higher purpose in the face of extreme stress, which Nynaeve cannot do. The fact that Nynaeve wants to rescue children and other suffering people when she's exposed to them makes her a serious risk to a higher purpose. All the Shadow has to do to someone like Nynaeve is exploit a weakness like this, whereas a true Aes Sedai should technically be immune to this type of temptation. If Cyndane sees Nynaeve protecting Rand, all she needs to do is break Mat's legs and leave him bleeding at the bottom of the hill... Nynaeve would abandon all higher purposes and run to help him. Morally she can't be touched, but she's an utter failure in a test where the rules are explicitly stated prior to starting, and in the broader spectrum of life where a higher purpose really can be worth the death and suffering of others.
I've never thought that the test for Aes Sedai is bad. I actually think its ideal. Channeling under extreme stress is almost all that matters when someone who can wield something as deadly as the OP and is relied upon by the general populace, is raised. Consider a channeler who is in a palace and knows that she is about to be balefired and she needs to weave a gateway calmly to escape. What use is a woman who fumbles for the Source (as incidentally did happen)? What use is a woman who is disabled with fear when 100,000 Trollocs attack the manor house?
My only gripes with the test are the following...
1. It can be fatal. I find this unacceptable in a test. It should be based on illusion and have safeguards against serious injury or death.
2. Failure means being put out of the Tower. If a woman cannot channel under extreme stress, she needs to be moulded further until she can handle the situations. Its like being forbidden to drive forever if you fail your driving test. Some people just need that second chance.
Nynaeve rattled the saber because of her childish and belligerent attitude towards other Aes Sedai. She should have failed the test because she still cannot do what Cadsuane said of her in WH... learn to endure things even if it wasn't necessary. She breaks rules whenever she doesn't agree with them or reacts with hostility. She's an atypical Aes Sedai, which Rand likes, but ultimately I think she's erratic and unreliable as a channeler.
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This message last edited by Sidious on 07/12/2010 at 08:29:51 PM
Nynaeve's stupidity and the test for Aes Sedai
07/12/2010 08:27:05 PM
- 4291 Views
Way to totally misunderstand the chapter
07/12/2010 09:39:08 PM
- 1651 Views
I second this
07/12/2010 10:10:24 PM
- 1347 Views
your bold is stuck. *NM*
07/12/2010 10:21:22 PM
- 575 Views
On the whole, the test is innappropriate IMO
07/12/2010 09:40:08 PM
- 1470 Views
nice post
08/12/2010 09:20:02 AM
- 1242 Views
Isn't it implied
08/12/2010 02:16:58 PM
- 1008 Views
no they were students together
08/12/2010 05:33:17 PM
- 959 Views
No, Lanfear was older than Lews
08/12/2010 07:21:45 PM
- 1182 Views
Where on earth did you get that from?
08/12/2010 08:41:16 PM
- 1110 Views
Re: Where on earth did you get that from?
09/12/2010 10:27:20 AM
- 1118 Views
Re: Where on earth did you get that from?
09/12/2010 03:56:32 PM
- 1192 Views
I always got the impression that they were together for quiet some time
09/12/2010 04:34:23 PM
- 1141 Views
Re: I always got the impression that they were together for quiet some time
09/12/2010 05:43:40 PM
- 1116 Views
I think skill with Saidar is easy enough to judge as it's a simple matter to see the skill
08/12/2010 05:37:27 PM
- 1041 Views
I think the greens should have been on Nynaeve's side as well
08/12/2010 06:18:16 PM
- 1161 Views
Problem is they are Aes Sedai and thus more likley to be political rather than rational! *NM*
08/12/2010 08:52:00 PM
- 810 Views
Re: nice post
09/12/2010 01:23:50 PM
- 1224 Views
On the matter of strength
09/12/2010 08:51:36 PM
- 1063 Views
Strength was "prized" in the AoL ... but lack of strength was not a negative
12/12/2010 01:41:08 AM
- 1025 Views
Yes. How dare she not conform with every other fucking mindless stupid WT Aes Sedai *NM*
07/12/2010 11:36:52 PM
- 656 Views
Status is not an end in itself. *NM*
07/12/2010 11:52:37 PM
- 528 Views
They're not really stupid...
08/12/2010 01:00:20 AM
- 1140 Views
Not saying they are. It's just that most AS that we've come across
08/12/2010 02:20:05 AM
- 840 Views
They're constantly outsmarted by a teenage girl that has spent most of her life in a damn farm.
08/12/2010 10:32:50 AM
- 1125 Views
Bah...
09/12/2010 10:56:24 AM
- 1159 Views
I did not say all Aes Sedai are stupid, I said all WT Aes Sedai are stupid.
10/12/2010 09:19:52 AM
- 1123 Views
You are not only wrong in your call,
08/12/2010 04:39:44 AM
- 1338 Views
Re: You are not only wrong in your call,
08/12/2010 09:13:37 AM
- 1354 Views
if that is the purpose of the test
08/12/2010 01:34:45 PM
- 1063 Views
minor disagreement
08/12/2010 05:27:51 PM
- 1138 Views
Yes, but you can be not-panicked and not calm of body
08/12/2010 06:38:56 PM
- 963 Views
not really the same thing as what the AS are getting at though
08/12/2010 09:02:05 PM
- 1613 Views
that's retarded, imo
09/12/2010 12:21:27 AM
- 1089 Views
Oh it's totally stupid!
09/12/2010 04:37:14 PM
- 1109 Views
No I know why she took the job. I just don't understand why she got it
09/12/2010 04:52:34 PM
- 1051 Views
I think Elaida just smarmed up at the right time, Morgase was very young then
09/12/2010 05:52:29 PM
- 1101 Views
Oh. Well, I'm sorry then.
08/12/2010 06:48:50 PM
- 1112 Views
I think it has already been established that the purpose of the test is to ensure that
08/12/2010 09:59:18 PM
- 855 Views
Yeah, but how does that work?
08/12/2010 10:24:35 PM
- 1016 Views
Somewhere in the sub-conscious they know what they're doing is important to them.
09/12/2010 12:20:47 AM
- 1127 Views
Even so, it wouldn't work.
09/12/2010 03:32:55 AM
- 1040 Views
I think if this thread has established anything it's that the test is severely flawed. *NM*
09/12/2010 09:24:48 PM
- 503 Views
Another headless chicken example.
09/12/2010 12:30:02 AM
- 1023 Views
the headless chicken is just such a lovely metaphor for panic *NM*
09/12/2010 04:48:11 AM
- 460 Views
Re: Oh. Well, I'm sorry then.
09/12/2010 12:07:15 PM
- 1113 Views
You seem to have no grasp of the difference between "politic" and "right"
09/12/2010 02:59:50 AM
- 1167 Views
Re: You seem to have no grasp of the difference between "politic" and "right"
09/12/2010 09:26:21 AM
- 1075 Views
That's not the dilema
09/12/2010 05:23:19 PM
- 1263 Views
One of those few times where I completely agree with Cannoli. Give over Sidious. You're wrong.
09/12/2010 09:55:20 PM
- 1055 Views
That's not what it's really about
10/12/2010 05:44:12 AM
- 1020 Views
This test, even by its usual abysmal standards, was idiotic. It bordered on being evil.
09/12/2010 03:46:31 AM
- 1021 Views
Re: This test, even by its usual abysmal standards, was idiotic. It bordered on being evil.
09/12/2010 09:40:09 AM
- 1114 Views
Re: This test, even by its usual abysmal standards, was idiotic. It bordered on being evil.
09/12/2010 02:04:02 PM
- 1418 Views
Re: This test, even by its usual abysmal standards, was idiotic. It bordered on being evil.
09/12/2010 11:26:40 AM
- 1144 Views
One of those few times where I completely agree with fionwe1987. Give over Sidious. You're wrong.
10/12/2010 03:53:25 PM
- 1122 Views