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Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot... Shannow Send a noteboard - 28/11/2010 03:38:14 PM
So, let's get this straight. Is there any area where the Shadow's plans have actually succeeded, a Lightside leading character has actually died, or even failed to come together with the love of his/her life? To summarise:

Graendal (the impossible to outwit Forsaken) fails to kill Perrin through a convoluted plot that makes no sense and is overcomplicated to the 100th degree. This while a simple reversed gateway weave would have allowed her to Travel into Perrin's tent, assasinate both him and Faile in less than 5 seconds, and leave again without breaking a sweat. Instead, she is now mindtrapped.

Fail.

Mesaana, despite being nothing out of the ordinary in TAR (and far, far from Moghedien or Lanfear's level of mastery in the Dreamworld) decides to take on Egwene (a natural born Dreamer) in the one area where Egwene can actually stand up to her and is defeated.

Fail.

Perrin and Slayer's long awaited battle takes on virtually the exact same incredibly unlikely pattern as Nynaeve and Moghedien's Dreamworld help to Rand during the battle against Rahvin, with Perrin "just happening" to arrive at the White Tower of all places at the exact same moment when Egwene just happens to be battling Mesaana in TAR, of all places. And this leads to Mesaana's defeat. Fail again.

Berelain meets Galad and falls in love to live happily ever after.

Morgase marries Tallanvor to live happily ever after.

Moiraine is rescued and marries Thom to live happily ever after.

Perrin and Faile make up to live happily ever after. (I at least thought Graendal would hurt Perrin by killing Faile, but nope, that would be too close to an actual success for the Shadow.)

Egwene ( 20 year old girl) once again politically outwits 100 year old Sitters and strengthens her hold over the Tower while at the same time getting full control over Aes Sedai interactions with Rand.

Elayne - despite being pregnant and less than 20 years old, manages to build a vast arsenal of cannons, outwits all political opponents, and strengthens her army immensely by various political maneuvres and machinations.

Despite overwhelming Trolloc armies and assaults, they struggle to even defeat one minor city in a borderland nation with most of its army away in Far Madding. This while every major Lightside character involved in the battle survives, as usual.

The bottomline is that despite promises of things growing darker in the last books, it seems to me that every plot involving lightside protagonists of import ends up with the lightsiders succeeding without exception, and more importantly AT NO COST to themselves.

Essentially ToM can be reduced to the following equation:

Ligthside gains = Graendal defeated, Mesaana dead, Arangar dead, Slayer defeated, Andor strengtened, Whitecloaks converted, Prophet dead, cannons built, White Tower unified and stabilized, Moiraine saved, all lightsiders married off to their various soulmates.

Shadow gains: One dead wolf.

(And by the way, Hopper's death was actually more heartbreaking to me than if Faile, Egwene, Elayne and Perrin had all died. But, emotionally troubling as it was, it hardly advanced the cause of Shadow much.

Seems like the history of failure for the Forsaken in particular continues unabated.

All that is left is quickly wrapping up the Last Battle (which we've already been shown is a sure thing, thanks to Aviendha's visions), and Bob's your uncle.



This message last edited by Shannow on 28/11/2010 at 03:52:03 PM
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Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot... - 28/11/2010 03:38:14 PM 2603 Views
Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot... - 28/11/2010 04:05:48 PM 1280 Views
Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot... - 29/11/2010 12:27:27 AM 1186 Views
Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot... - 29/11/2010 12:36:49 AM 1165 Views
Re: Easy life of Lightside heroes and pathetic incompetence of the Shadow - so what's new in Wot... - 29/11/2010 01:59:18 AM 1183 Views
Yes, she still lets herself be ruled by her desire to control everything - 29/11/2010 02:39:34 AM 1145 Views
I vote it has come to pass - 29/11/2010 02:48:26 AM 1032 Views
*facepalm* - good point, not sure how I missed that. *NM* - 29/11/2010 03:12:00 AM 614 Views
Re: I vote it has come to pass - 29/11/2010 09:42:51 AM 1033 Views
Prophecy never said she would be angry at the time, - 29/11/2010 11:36:53 AM 1077 Views
lol true, gg *NM* - 29/11/2010 11:52:54 AM 584 Views
Aviendha's vision doesn't automatically mean the Light will win - 28/11/2010 05:32:56 PM 1421 Views
She doesn't even see that. The arches just show a possibility. - 29/11/2010 07:12:05 PM 969 Views
Indeed - 28/11/2010 06:16:41 PM 1094 Views
am i the only one who acknowledges that it's a jerk deal for jerks - 28/11/2010 08:00:23 PM 1283 Views
i think most people feel that way - 29/11/2010 09:06:44 AM 1119 Views
I agree with you - 05/12/2010 05:13:38 PM 916 Views
Re: am i the only one who acknowledges that it's a jerk deal for jerks - 29/11/2010 06:40:18 PM 1046 Views
I'm sure that all the men Ituralde lost would agree with you about it being a breeze -_- - 29/11/2010 12:32:56 AM 1042 Views
Byar was compulsed - 29/11/2010 12:46:01 AM 1349 Views
I agree that he was part of Graendal's plan, but - 29/11/2010 02:16:45 AM 1002 Views
Re: I agree that he was part of Graendal's plan, but - 29/11/2010 09:44:05 AM 958 Views
Re: Byar was compulsed - 29/11/2010 12:54:38 PM 1312 Views
Re: Byar was compulsed - 29/11/2010 12:59:31 PM 1021 Views
Re: Byar was compulsed - 29/11/2010 01:10:18 PM 1039 Views
He disbelieves in the Heroes - 29/11/2010 03:33:27 PM 1003 Views
I think that's his mind deceiving itself - 29/11/2010 07:19:05 PM 1063 Views
I didn't say he was necessarily Compulsed - 30/11/2010 07:40:51 AM 949 Views
Do we have his reaction to the Heroes themselves? - 30/11/2010 11:55:42 AM 1070 Views
Re: Do we have his reaction to the Heroes themselves? - 30/11/2010 12:05:44 PM 966 Views
he makes no mention of the Heroes. - 30/11/2010 10:42:13 PM 1063 Views
They did get another thing right - 29/11/2010 12:40:52 AM 1054 Views
Not Mat's fault, really - Verin didn't rehash her opinion of him. - 29/11/2010 02:18:17 AM 1009 Views
It's the WOT Red Shirt syndrome - 29/11/2010 04:29:12 AM 1125 Views
I don't want everyone to win and end up happily ever after though. - 29/11/2010 04:33:06 AM 1008 Views
The disney ending is not realistic - or at least not as believable - 29/11/2010 04:41:04 AM 1151 Views
You, good sir, are - 30/11/2010 06:53:49 PM 941 Views
I also think Lan will be saved right before the end. - 29/11/2010 06:50:34 PM 928 Views
Re: I also think Lan will be saved right before the end. - 30/11/2010 01:47:27 AM 1052 Views
It's a well told story with fun characters overall, but it's definitely not "War & Peace" - 29/11/2010 06:33:12 PM 1176 Views
+1 *NM* - 29/11/2010 07:18:13 PM 544 Views
it is. I love it anyways, though - 29/11/2010 07:23:24 PM 965 Views
War and Peace was very thematic - 30/11/2010 05:00:30 AM 1375 Views
Doublethink for the win! *NM* - 30/11/2010 07:35:20 AM 569 Views
Re: War and Peace was very thematic - 30/11/2010 09:35:50 AM 995 Views
I'm not really sure if or why any reader would need to suspend disbelief to enjoy WoT - 30/11/2010 10:31:49 PM 983 Views
Please tell me what drugs you're on - 01/12/2010 04:04:39 AM 1083 Views
It's called 'reality' - I agree with LadyLorraine & Moratcorlm - 01/12/2010 07:57:35 PM 1004 Views
You are absolutely wrong. - 02/12/2010 04:53:52 AM 966 Views
You are incorrect - you should read the definition you reference before posting it. - 02/12/2010 04:19:16 PM 1122 Views
No, I read the ENTIRE article, unlike you. You have to scroll down a bit. - 02/12/2010 05:47:13 PM 896 Views
No, you need to read and comprehend. That was a THEORY. - 02/12/2010 07:11:01 PM 816 Views
It's really very simple. - 04/12/2010 12:31:16 AM 1071 Views
mk, I think I understand more what you meant now after reading this exchange - 05/12/2010 05:42:47 AM 1016 Views
I still don't agree; sorry. I don't think this theory applies to everyone. - 06/12/2010 05:30:41 PM 1117 Views
No, those are disbeliefs that you must suspend. - 01/12/2010 08:18:25 PM 912 Views
You have to feel the characters are somehow believable to empathize with them. - 02/12/2010 01:05:29 AM 959 Views
I don't see how WoT's writing (Before, or now) prevents that - 02/12/2010 04:12:54 AM 820 Views
I'm not arguing that it necessarily does for everyone, just that YOU HAVE TO SUSPEND DISBELIEF - 02/12/2010 04:48:51 AM 1014 Views
That's a load of crap... - 02/12/2010 06:03:13 AM 1129 Views
Sure - 01/12/2010 01:30:03 AM 934 Views
Black Tower - 30/11/2010 01:50:29 AM 926 Views
Re: Black Tower - 30/11/2010 01:57:48 AM 1058 Views
I agree with everything. - 30/11/2010 01:37:11 PM 1072 Views
Hopper's death... oh god... - 01/12/2010 01:00:12 AM 1169 Views
while i miss hopper - 02/12/2010 04:19:28 AM 945 Views
Re: while i miss hopper - 02/12/2010 05:30:52 PM 1077 Views
Hopper wasn't that important, either, though. - 03/12/2010 02:32:10 PM 889 Views
Re: Hopper wasn't that important, either, though. - 03/12/2010 03:10:54 PM 920 Views
It would be awesome if it were, though. - 03/12/2010 04:41:42 PM 1053 Views
Re: It would be awesome if it were, though. - 04/12/2010 09:54:09 PM 1026 Views
- 05/12/2010 07:07:44 AM 883 Views

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