I have been thinking about Rands plans to break the seals. I have been wondering why exactly he is in such a hurry to do it. I mean yes, it is true that delaying is costly for the light. The DO is killing people with bubbles of evil, and everywhere except around Rand, people are starving since the food is spoiling. It is true that the faster the good guys can start the fight, the stronger they are.
However, it seems a bit strange to me that Rand wants to break the seals, when he apparently does not yet know how to seal the DO away properly. I mean right after he visits Egwene at the WT and says he is going to break the seals, he then proceeds to ask Min to find out what role Callandor is supposed to play in the sealing.
"Callandor" he said. "It plays a part in this. You have to find out how. I cannot seal the Bore the way I tried last time. I'm missing something, something vital. Find it for me."
We know LTT does NOT know for certain how to seal the bore properly, and from what Rand is saying here, he has not been mysteriously given an answer by the Creator or the Light or whatever. So why in the world is he in such as rush to break the seals then? Would the smart thing not be to research the matter until he is completely sure what to do, and THEN break the seals?
One possibility is that the reason Rand is doing what he is doing because he has faith that the Creator or ta'veren or whatever will show him what to do when the time is right, and that as such it does not matter that he does not yet know what to do. When the time comes, he will. Basically, Rand might think that the right thing to do is to just take a leap of faith and trust that the Creator has prepared the way for him. I suppose this might be what Rand intends, but it feels a bit iffy. In an earlier POV we saw Rand scoff at Logain for thinking that the Creator cleansed saidin. Granted, it happened before Rand's epiphany and may have been influenced by Moridin, but it might still be indicative of how Rand/LTT views the world.
Irritably, Rand pushed his sleeves down and dropped into a chair. What he had done made no matter to Logain. The man knew saidin was clean, but he could not believe Rand or any man had actually done the cleansing. Did he think the Creator had decided to stretch out a merciful hand after three thousand years of suffering? The Creator had made the world and then left humankind to make of it what they would, a heaven or the Pit of Doom by their choosing. The Creator had made many worlds, watched each flower or die, and gone on to make endless worlds beyond. A gardener did not weep for each blossom that fell.
Maybe Rand's POV has changed, but if it has not then what? If Rand does not believe that the Creator will just hand him the answer then what is he planning?
Another possibility is that Rand is operating on the mistaken belief that a mixed circle of male and female channelers working together would make the old method with the cuendillar seals work. We know however that this is not the case. RJ himself has confirmed that if the women had aided LTT, both sides would have been tainted.
RJ: Okay, then you know about the political struggles that were going on, and the different plans to try and end the War of the Shadow, and seal up the….and why various groups thought that one plan or the other was the best way to go. And in the end, what resulted was the so-called “Fatal Covenant”21 , which had the female Aes Sedai swearing not to go along with Lews Therin’s plan, that they would not support it. The result of this was that Lews Therin carried out his plan with only male Aes Sedai, so there were only male Aes Sedai channeling there, which was a lucky thing, because if there’d been women as well, then both saidin and saidar would have been tainted. And his plan worked, except for that one side effect of the backblast which tainted saidin and caused him and the men there with him to go mad there and then, and other male Aes Sedai to go mad slowly as they touched the Source and began to absorb bits of the taint. But that’s why saidar was not tainted, because there were only men there channeling during this act of sealing up the Dark One’s prison.
However it seems unlikely that the highly educated LTT would fail to anticipate the possibility of this. And regardless, he knows that the cuendillar seals are just a temporary solution anyway. Maybe Rand intends to just repeat what he did before, except with women, but I doubt it.
There are also other questions that puzzle me. For example, Rand knows that something is very screwy at the Black Tower. He worries that going there himself might lead him to a fatal trap, so he sent Naeff under disguise to spy on the place and figure out whats going on. That to me atleast suggests that he intends to do something about the BT. However he sent Naeff there just before he went to see the borderlanders, and he told them that he intends to break the seals the following day and go to SG. There is no way Naeff could report back in that timescale, and yet Rand still sends him.
So basically, we are in a strange situation where Rand seems obsessed with breaking the seals right now, despite apparently having no sure plan on how to properly seal the DO away, and despite still making plans to deal with the BT and such. Why? Why not wait, plan more carefully, clean the BT, prepare everything better, and THEN break the seals. That would seem like the smart thing to do.
One possibility is that Rand is still somewhat insane and that the light protection is not shielding him from the taint completely, another possibility is that Moridin is using their connection to subtly influence Rand's thoughts into an unwise direction. This is certainly plausible, especially considering Rand's encounter with Lanfear at the end of the book.
Here however, I want to consider a different direction. This might have been suggested already somewhere, I have not had the time to read every post everywhere, but I will theorize anyway.
In the AoL, LTT originally intended to place the cuendillar seals in a circle with women, but the women refused to help so he eventually had to go at it alone. This was a good thing as I said above, since if the women HAD helped, saidar would also have been tainted. The possibility of the taint was not the issue however, but rather the potential danger in placing the seals.
This plan was considered risky for a number of reasons. Even today it is known that the Dark One has a certain degree of effect on the world close around Shayol Ghul, and it was probable that any attempt to channel there would be instantly detected and the raiding party destroyed. Lews Therin himself, who intended to personally lead this huge raid, admitted that even with sucess, he expected few of the attackers to survive, perhaps none. Worse, several experts claimed that if the seals were not placed with exact precision, the resulting strain would, instead of sealing up the Bore, rip it open, freeing the Dark One completely.
Basically, if LTT had screwed up and placed the seals even slightly out of alignment, he might have freed the Dark One entirely. That did not happen ofcourse, LTT managed to place the seals properly.
Now comes the theory.
The strike says that the 7 cuendillar seals were actually called "focus points" rather than seals. We know that Cuendillar was thought to be indestructible, and we also know that channeling was required to seal the DO. LTT himself says that something had to touch the DO, and that is how he was able to taint saidin.
Lews Therin! Rand snapped in his mind. What do we do? How did you seal the Bore last time?
It didn't work, Lews Therin whispered. We used saidin, but we touched it to the Dark One. It was the only way! Something has to touch him, something to close the gap, but he was able to taint it. The seal was weak!
Yes, but what do we do differently? Rand thought.
This to me atleast seems to suggest that the actual seals are made of OP, but they are somehow linked to the cuendillar seals which help support and maintain the OP seals keeping the DO at bay. An analogy might be a dam thats keeping a large area of water at bay. The actual dam would be the OP seals in the bore, while the cuendillar focus points might be a support structure that absorbs the strain of the the water. Or in this case the DO. So basically, when the Dark One strikes at the OP seals, the "impact" is instead transferred to the cuendillar focus point which being cuendillar can withstand the blast and so the OP seal remains intact. And it is the improper placement of these OP seals that would have released the DO completely.
However on first thought this seems silly. The cuendillar focus points are no longer indestructible, so if this idea were true, the DO could break free at any moment. He would just attack the OP seal, the impact would transfer to the cuendillar focus point which, being so weak now, would shatter, and the OP seal would collapse. So it seems this is probably not how the OP-seals/cuendillar focus points work. UNLESS, the DO does not WANT to break the seals (this is the crazy part
).
We have several viewpoints over the books where several characters come into contact with the seals. Often they mention that they can feel something wrong about the seals.
She was only trying to avoid the washleather purse stuffed right to the back, and she knew it, yet there was not a hair's difference for ugliness between the purse and the thought of losing to Moghedien again. Drawing a deep breath, she gingerly reached in and took it up by the drawstrings, and knew she had been wrong. Evil seemed to bathe her hand, stronger than ever, as if the Dark One really was trying to break through the cuendillar seal inside. Better to dwell all day on defeat by Moghedien; there was a world of difference between thought and reality. It had to be imagination – there had been no such feeling in Tanchico – but she wished she could let Elayne carry that, too. Or leave it there.
Nynaeve believes that the Dark One is trying to break through the seal, but what if thats not what the DO is planning. What if instead of trying to shatter the cuendillar seals and open the bore, the Dark One is trying to corrupt the focus points and basically take control of them. We know that if the OP-seals had been placed even slightly incorrectly, the Dark Ones entire prison could have broken. I suggest that the DO is hoping to do just that, to take control of the focus points and use them and their connection to the actual OP-seals in the bore to move the OP-seals just slightly, enough that they are no longer precisely placed. The effect of which ofcourse would be what the ancient Aes Sedai were afraid of, a strain on the bore which would rip the Dark Ones prison open completely, releasing him in full.
LTT was the one who originally developed the plan and the seals. It seems likely that he would know them better than anyone, which means that now Rand knows it too. If the DO really was planning on corrupting the seals as I theorize, and if it is something that is possible, then Rand would now know it. I believe Rand has realised what the DO is trying to do, and is planning on breakin the cuendillar seals himself before the DO can corrupt them, and use them to break free completely. That is why he cannot afford to wait and plan, because if he did, the DO might be able to finish his work, shift the OP-seals, and rip the prison to bits. Better an open bore, rather than no prison at all.
However, it seems a bit strange to me that Rand wants to break the seals, when he apparently does not yet know how to seal the DO away properly. I mean right after he visits Egwene at the WT and says he is going to break the seals, he then proceeds to ask Min to find out what role Callandor is supposed to play in the sealing.
"Callandor" he said. "It plays a part in this. You have to find out how. I cannot seal the Bore the way I tried last time. I'm missing something, something vital. Find it for me."
We know LTT does NOT know for certain how to seal the bore properly, and from what Rand is saying here, he has not been mysteriously given an answer by the Creator or the Light or whatever. So why in the world is he in such as rush to break the seals then? Would the smart thing not be to research the matter until he is completely sure what to do, and THEN break the seals?
One possibility is that the reason Rand is doing what he is doing because he has faith that the Creator or ta'veren or whatever will show him what to do when the time is right, and that as such it does not matter that he does not yet know what to do. When the time comes, he will. Basically, Rand might think that the right thing to do is to just take a leap of faith and trust that the Creator has prepared the way for him. I suppose this might be what Rand intends, but it feels a bit iffy. In an earlier POV we saw Rand scoff at Logain for thinking that the Creator cleansed saidin. Granted, it happened before Rand's epiphany and may have been influenced by Moridin, but it might still be indicative of how Rand/LTT views the world.
Irritably, Rand pushed his sleeves down and dropped into a chair. What he had done made no matter to Logain. The man knew saidin was clean, but he could not believe Rand or any man had actually done the cleansing. Did he think the Creator had decided to stretch out a merciful hand after three thousand years of suffering? The Creator had made the world and then left humankind to make of it what they would, a heaven or the Pit of Doom by their choosing. The Creator had made many worlds, watched each flower or die, and gone on to make endless worlds beyond. A gardener did not weep for each blossom that fell.
Maybe Rand's POV has changed, but if it has not then what? If Rand does not believe that the Creator will just hand him the answer then what is he planning?
Another possibility is that Rand is operating on the mistaken belief that a mixed circle of male and female channelers working together would make the old method with the cuendillar seals work. We know however that this is not the case. RJ himself has confirmed that if the women had aided LTT, both sides would have been tainted.
RJ: Okay, then you know about the political struggles that were going on, and the different plans to try and end the War of the Shadow, and seal up the….and why various groups thought that one plan or the other was the best way to go. And in the end, what resulted was the so-called “Fatal Covenant”21 , which had the female Aes Sedai swearing not to go along with Lews Therin’s plan, that they would not support it. The result of this was that Lews Therin carried out his plan with only male Aes Sedai, so there were only male Aes Sedai channeling there, which was a lucky thing, because if there’d been women as well, then both saidin and saidar would have been tainted. And his plan worked, except for that one side effect of the backblast which tainted saidin and caused him and the men there with him to go mad there and then, and other male Aes Sedai to go mad slowly as they touched the Source and began to absorb bits of the taint. But that’s why saidar was not tainted, because there were only men there channeling during this act of sealing up the Dark One’s prison.
However it seems unlikely that the highly educated LTT would fail to anticipate the possibility of this. And regardless, he knows that the cuendillar seals are just a temporary solution anyway. Maybe Rand intends to just repeat what he did before, except with women, but I doubt it.
There are also other questions that puzzle me. For example, Rand knows that something is very screwy at the Black Tower. He worries that going there himself might lead him to a fatal trap, so he sent Naeff under disguise to spy on the place and figure out whats going on. That to me atleast suggests that he intends to do something about the BT. However he sent Naeff there just before he went to see the borderlanders, and he told them that he intends to break the seals the following day and go to SG. There is no way Naeff could report back in that timescale, and yet Rand still sends him.
So basically, we are in a strange situation where Rand seems obsessed with breaking the seals right now, despite apparently having no sure plan on how to properly seal the DO away, and despite still making plans to deal with the BT and such. Why? Why not wait, plan more carefully, clean the BT, prepare everything better, and THEN break the seals. That would seem like the smart thing to do.
One possibility is that Rand is still somewhat insane and that the light protection is not shielding him from the taint completely, another possibility is that Moridin is using their connection to subtly influence Rand's thoughts into an unwise direction. This is certainly plausible, especially considering Rand's encounter with Lanfear at the end of the book.
Here however, I want to consider a different direction. This might have been suggested already somewhere, I have not had the time to read every post everywhere, but I will theorize anyway.
In the AoL, LTT originally intended to place the cuendillar seals in a circle with women, but the women refused to help so he eventually had to go at it alone. This was a good thing as I said above, since if the women HAD helped, saidar would also have been tainted. The possibility of the taint was not the issue however, but rather the potential danger in placing the seals.
This plan was considered risky for a number of reasons. Even today it is known that the Dark One has a certain degree of effect on the world close around Shayol Ghul, and it was probable that any attempt to channel there would be instantly detected and the raiding party destroyed. Lews Therin himself, who intended to personally lead this huge raid, admitted that even with sucess, he expected few of the attackers to survive, perhaps none. Worse, several experts claimed that if the seals were not placed with exact precision, the resulting strain would, instead of sealing up the Bore, rip it open, freeing the Dark One completely.
Basically, if LTT had screwed up and placed the seals even slightly out of alignment, he might have freed the Dark One entirely. That did not happen ofcourse, LTT managed to place the seals properly.
Now comes the theory.
The strike says that the 7 cuendillar seals were actually called "focus points" rather than seals. We know that Cuendillar was thought to be indestructible, and we also know that channeling was required to seal the DO. LTT himself says that something had to touch the DO, and that is how he was able to taint saidin.
Lews Therin! Rand snapped in his mind. What do we do? How did you seal the Bore last time?
It didn't work, Lews Therin whispered. We used saidin, but we touched it to the Dark One. It was the only way! Something has to touch him, something to close the gap, but he was able to taint it. The seal was weak!
Yes, but what do we do differently? Rand thought.
This to me atleast seems to suggest that the actual seals are made of OP, but they are somehow linked to the cuendillar seals which help support and maintain the OP seals keeping the DO at bay. An analogy might be a dam thats keeping a large area of water at bay. The actual dam would be the OP seals in the bore, while the cuendillar focus points might be a support structure that absorbs the strain of the the water. Or in this case the DO. So basically, when the Dark One strikes at the OP seals, the "impact" is instead transferred to the cuendillar focus point which being cuendillar can withstand the blast and so the OP seal remains intact. And it is the improper placement of these OP seals that would have released the DO completely.
However on first thought this seems silly. The cuendillar focus points are no longer indestructible, so if this idea were true, the DO could break free at any moment. He would just attack the OP seal, the impact would transfer to the cuendillar focus point which, being so weak now, would shatter, and the OP seal would collapse. So it seems this is probably not how the OP-seals/cuendillar focus points work. UNLESS, the DO does not WANT to break the seals (this is the crazy part
).We have several viewpoints over the books where several characters come into contact with the seals. Often they mention that they can feel something wrong about the seals.
She was only trying to avoid the washleather purse stuffed right to the back, and she knew it, yet there was not a hair's difference for ugliness between the purse and the thought of losing to Moghedien again. Drawing a deep breath, she gingerly reached in and took it up by the drawstrings, and knew she had been wrong. Evil seemed to bathe her hand, stronger than ever, as if the Dark One really was trying to break through the cuendillar seal inside. Better to dwell all day on defeat by Moghedien; there was a world of difference between thought and reality. It had to be imagination – there had been no such feeling in Tanchico – but she wished she could let Elayne carry that, too. Or leave it there.
Nynaeve believes that the Dark One is trying to break through the seal, but what if thats not what the DO is planning. What if instead of trying to shatter the cuendillar seals and open the bore, the Dark One is trying to corrupt the focus points and basically take control of them. We know that if the OP-seals had been placed even slightly incorrectly, the Dark Ones entire prison could have broken. I suggest that the DO is hoping to do just that, to take control of the focus points and use them and their connection to the actual OP-seals in the bore to move the OP-seals just slightly, enough that they are no longer precisely placed. The effect of which ofcourse would be what the ancient Aes Sedai were afraid of, a strain on the bore which would rip the Dark Ones prison open completely, releasing him in full.
LTT was the one who originally developed the plan and the seals. It seems likely that he would know them better than anyone, which means that now Rand knows it too. If the DO really was planning on corrupting the seals as I theorize, and if it is something that is possible, then Rand would now know it. I believe Rand has realised what the DO is trying to do, and is planning on breakin the cuendillar seals himself before the DO can corrupt them, and use them to break free completely. That is why he cannot afford to wait and plan, because if he did, the DO might be able to finish his work, shift the OP-seals, and rip the prison to bits. Better an open bore, rather than no prison at all.
What are the current locations of the unbroken seals? How many are left?
Crazy theory about the seals.
- 22/11/2010 03:45:36 PM
1438 Views
Re: Crazy theory about the seals.
- 22/11/2010 04:16:29 PM
1006 Views
I think Rand's dream of Cyndane will lead him to ...
- 22/11/2010 04:57:16 PM
828 Views
Re: I think Rand's dream of Cyndane will lead him to ...
- 22/11/2010 05:10:19 PM
1218 Views
He's probably banking on his ta'veren aura to force the Pattern to reveal how to Seal the Bore.
- 23/11/2010 02:18:09 AM
732 Views
Rand will seal the Bore with the TP and sacrifice himself in the process. *NM*
- 22/11/2010 06:09:57 PM
444 Views
I think you make it too complicated for nothing..
- 23/11/2010 03:05:08 AM
945 Views
Not sure I agree.
- 23/11/2010 03:43:00 PM
830 Views
I regard to making ti worse...
- 23/11/2010 06:31:36 PM
729 Views
They've nearly lost the Borderlands... THERE IS NO TIME LEFT *NM*
- 29/11/2010 12:34:38 AM
332 Views