Where are these Dreadlords coming from, then?
CatherineSedai Send a noteboard - 21/11/2010 05:15:08 AM
Everything you say makes great sense. The only thing I can think of is, who are these Dreadlords then, if they're not Forsaken or Asha'man? Where did they come from? They can't have been bred by the shadow the way all the other shadowspawn are. Wouldn't we have seen this before? None of the Forsaken have had any on-screen contact with channelers who do not belong to one of the Towers. My reasoning was a little different:
Androl thinks to himself that most of Taim's new recruits have the same sour temper and mean streak that many of the Asha'man of his faction display. I think it likely that Taim is sending his favorites to recruit more evil men, and, again, is giving the dragon pin to basically any man who is a darkfriend. I know there's a point in the story about Taim's new recruits learning too fast, one in particular who was Asha'man and was only strong enough to be Dedicated a month ago, but I don't know that this is necessarily an indication that they have already been trained elsewhere. I think Taim is the one creating these new dreadlords and then sending them out to assault the Borderlands, and use the Portal stones to move Shadowspawn. I agree that Taim is not the one in charge, like you said, he's more of a Lieutenant, but I think he was sent to Rand so long ago so that he could set up a "sancioned" base of power right under the Dragon's nose, and then he could cull the men he might use out of a larger group of men channeling. There is no other place in the world where men gather to channel, so this was an ideal way to gather as many as possible to the Shadow's side, and he can also conscript the good Men and 13x13 them.
I assumed their dramatic increases in strength would just be some other surprise to be revealed later. I can't think of anyway you could force a man faster than the BT already does, and we don't know of any tricks of the power to increase a man's strength. Maybe these men are still too weak to legitimately deserve the Dragon pin, but Taim is giving it to them anyway. Perhaps he has begun using the Pins like they were a personal sigil. "Any who wear the Dragon belong to me and my faction." He could be raising men who are undeserving.
There is definitely evidence to support your theory, but as I said, I just can't see where the Dreadlords would be coming from, if not from the BT. Any ideas?
Androl thinks to himself that most of Taim's new recruits have the same sour temper and mean streak that many of the Asha'man of his faction display. I think it likely that Taim is sending his favorites to recruit more evil men, and, again, is giving the dragon pin to basically any man who is a darkfriend. I know there's a point in the story about Taim's new recruits learning too fast, one in particular who was Asha'man and was only strong enough to be Dedicated a month ago, but I don't know that this is necessarily an indication that they have already been trained elsewhere. I think Taim is the one creating these new dreadlords and then sending them out to assault the Borderlands, and use the Portal stones to move Shadowspawn. I agree that Taim is not the one in charge, like you said, he's more of a Lieutenant, but I think he was sent to Rand so long ago so that he could set up a "sancioned" base of power right under the Dragon's nose, and then he could cull the men he might use out of a larger group of men channeling. There is no other place in the world where men gather to channel, so this was an ideal way to gather as many as possible to the Shadow's side, and he can also conscript the good Men and 13x13 them.
I assumed their dramatic increases in strength would just be some other surprise to be revealed later. I can't think of anyway you could force a man faster than the BT already does, and we don't know of any tricks of the power to increase a man's strength. Maybe these men are still too weak to legitimately deserve the Dragon pin, but Taim is giving it to them anyway. Perhaps he has begun using the Pins like they were a personal sigil. "Any who wear the Dragon belong to me and my faction." He could be raising men who are undeserving.
There is definitely evidence to support your theory, but as I said, I just can't see where the Dreadlords would be coming from, if not from the BT. Any ideas?
I don't think it's what the situation implied at all.
Rather, it seems many of Taim's new recruits are progressing way too fast, and show too much strength too fast, to be what they claim to be.
These men aren't recruits at all They are fully trained Dreadlords, sent to reinforce those Taim trains at the BT, and help him bring the endgame about (it involves turning all the Lightside men and women channellers there).
It's becoming more and more obvious. Taim's faction is merely the tip of the iceberg. He isn't in charge of the male dreadlords, he's just a lieutenant, with the special mission to remain at the BT, control it and how and in what the men are trained (he knows everything about the Asha'man, their tactics, their knowledge... their weaknesses, including those he probably managed to manipulating into adopting, through flawed training) for as long as Rand left him in charge - and ultimately destroy Rand's efforts.
The male dreadlords aren't Asha'man, and it appears the core of them weren't even trained anywhere near the BT. There is another secret organization elsewhere, in which Taim and his men have ranks and all. Taim had already been taught how to test and recruit before he was sent to Rand! Most of the men found by the Shadow have been sent elsewhere, to someone else. Taim was given only those he needed for his mission within the BT, without attracting too much attention (it was a close call with Logain).
Now the endgame is coming. Demandred is gathering his whole forces and about to enter his southern headquarters, from where he'll lead the war. Taim has been ordered to "clean up" the BT of the Light's forces. The move to capture Caemlyn is underway. Demandred must be moving to capture all the Waygates and Portal Stones he can, right at the beginning. He's planning to singlehandly undo the failures of the Shadow's generals, and re capture their planned fortresses. Demandred will have or try to have Tear, Illian, Cairhien, Rhuidean... and Caemlyn. If he succeeds, Demandred will soon turn Caemlyn into a fortified coral for Shadowspawn, keeping them fed with the population.
Moridin intends to direct the war from the North, in the Blight - and barely leaves his fortress, protected by some of Demandred's non-Asha'man dreadlords. Demandred will lead the war from the South. He's waiting from Taim to finish the clean up to come claim his dreamspike protected headquarters.
Demandred's interest in Caemlyn goes way back, and it was to be right between forces Semirhage only needed to turn Tuon to the Shadow to control (and now, we know why this needed to wait until the last minute - the changes are too apparent), and the Tower undermined by Mesaana. Demandred won't have it as easy as he hoped, and worked for... but he might still be in a very advantageous position.
It sounds more and more like Mat will have to make his peace with the One Power and Aes Sedai, and lead them (men and women) to war. It sounds like Mat might be about to lose most of the Band left in Caemlyn, the same way its predecessor perished in the last stand of Manetheren... and for a while to equip the Shadow with dragons.... and the Creator knows what Demandred could make of all those bronze cast projectile weapons. With the right Talents among his men, he could easily transform them into something far more deadly...
It sounds like Elayne could find herself in Lan's situation soon, as Queen of realms fallen to the Shadow. Unless Rand sends his forces to Caemlyn, but this sounds more and more like Mesaana and others told Demandred and Moridin about Rand's meeting, and the Shadow had a full month to time and organize its initial assault in the South with deadly precision.
If news of this filter to the meeting, Rand might have a harder time convincing the world now's the good time to break the seals and increase manifold the Shadow's power.... if the attack didn't start the minute Rand broke the seals at the meeting, as seems quite possible. That would be extremely clever, as beside taken advantage of the Shadow's increase in strength, it sounds likely the Light forces will be less than enthusiastic about the seals, even if Rand manages to win his point by an hair. The Light's leaders will freak out, and it will be devasting to morale and confidence in Rand if the Shadow has a sudden and major military victory almost right on the heels of the breaking of the seals. Demandred is a military genius, but Moridin has also always been a master of psychological warfare...
Of course, it's possible LTT has anticipated Demandred, and has a plan within his professed plan to gather the Light and break the seals on that specific day.
Rather, it seems many of Taim's new recruits are progressing way too fast, and show too much strength too fast, to be what they claim to be.
These men aren't recruits at all They are fully trained Dreadlords, sent to reinforce those Taim trains at the BT, and help him bring the endgame about (it involves turning all the Lightside men and women channellers there).
It's becoming more and more obvious. Taim's faction is merely the tip of the iceberg. He isn't in charge of the male dreadlords, he's just a lieutenant, with the special mission to remain at the BT, control it and how and in what the men are trained (he knows everything about the Asha'man, their tactics, their knowledge... their weaknesses, including those he probably managed to manipulating into adopting, through flawed training) for as long as Rand left him in charge - and ultimately destroy Rand's efforts.
The male dreadlords aren't Asha'man, and it appears the core of them weren't even trained anywhere near the BT. There is another secret organization elsewhere, in which Taim and his men have ranks and all. Taim had already been taught how to test and recruit before he was sent to Rand! Most of the men found by the Shadow have been sent elsewhere, to someone else. Taim was given only those he needed for his mission within the BT, without attracting too much attention (it was a close call with Logain).
Now the endgame is coming. Demandred is gathering his whole forces and about to enter his southern headquarters, from where he'll lead the war. Taim has been ordered to "clean up" the BT of the Light's forces. The move to capture Caemlyn is underway. Demandred must be moving to capture all the Waygates and Portal Stones he can, right at the beginning. He's planning to singlehandly undo the failures of the Shadow's generals, and re capture their planned fortresses. Demandred will have or try to have Tear, Illian, Cairhien, Rhuidean... and Caemlyn. If he succeeds, Demandred will soon turn Caemlyn into a fortified coral for Shadowspawn, keeping them fed with the population.
Moridin intends to direct the war from the North, in the Blight - and barely leaves his fortress, protected by some of Demandred's non-Asha'man dreadlords. Demandred will lead the war from the South. He's waiting from Taim to finish the clean up to come claim his dreamspike protected headquarters.
Demandred's interest in Caemlyn goes way back, and it was to be right between forces Semirhage only needed to turn Tuon to the Shadow to control (and now, we know why this needed to wait until the last minute - the changes are too apparent), and the Tower undermined by Mesaana. Demandred won't have it as easy as he hoped, and worked for... but he might still be in a very advantageous position.
It sounds more and more like Mat will have to make his peace with the One Power and Aes Sedai, and lead them (men and women) to war. It sounds like Mat might be about to lose most of the Band left in Caemlyn, the same way its predecessor perished in the last stand of Manetheren... and for a while to equip the Shadow with dragons.... and the Creator knows what Demandred could make of all those bronze cast projectile weapons. With the right Talents among his men, he could easily transform them into something far more deadly...
It sounds like Elayne could find herself in Lan's situation soon, as Queen of realms fallen to the Shadow. Unless Rand sends his forces to Caemlyn, but this sounds more and more like Mesaana and others told Demandred and Moridin about Rand's meeting, and the Shadow had a full month to time and organize its initial assault in the South with deadly precision.
If news of this filter to the meeting, Rand might have a harder time convincing the world now's the good time to break the seals and increase manifold the Shadow's power.... if the attack didn't start the minute Rand broke the seals at the meeting, as seems quite possible. That would be extremely clever, as beside taken advantage of the Shadow's increase in strength, it sounds likely the Light forces will be less than enthusiastic about the seals, even if Rand manages to win his point by an hair. The Light's leaders will freak out, and it will be devasting to morale and confidence in Rand if the Shadow has a sudden and major military victory almost right on the heels of the breaking of the seals. Demandred is a military genius, but Moridin has also always been a master of psychological warfare...
Of course, it's possible LTT has anticipated Demandred, and has a plan within his professed plan to gather the Light and break the seals on that specific day.
I always say, if you must mount the gallows, give a jest to the crowd, a coin to the hangman, and make the drop with a smile on your lips. ~Birgitte
Freaky stuff going on at the Black Tower
09/11/2010 09:20:05 AM
- 1748 Views
The BT is Rand's biggest failure
09/11/2010 10:38:57 AM
- 1293 Views
She can heal the mad ones, but the 13x13 ones...
09/11/2010 01:26:08 PM
- 1248 Views
I think Nynaeve's ability will be used to cure more than just the madness
09/11/2010 02:22:07 PM
- 1016 Views
Re: I think Nynaeve's ability will be used to cure more than just the madness
09/11/2010 02:49:55 PM
- 930 Views
I gave up on Rand dealing with it several books ago. It's Logain's problem. *NM*
09/11/2010 04:11:13 PM
- 497 Views
Re: I gave up on Rand dealing with it several books ago. It's Logain's problem.
09/11/2010 06:43:10 PM
- 1017 Views
Looks like only Mezar and Tarna so far. But not irreversible...
09/11/2010 08:58:55 PM
- 1568 Views
The way I read it, the book implied that many of the newly raised Asha'man had been 13x13'd *NM*
10/11/2010 08:22:18 AM
- 502 Views
Re: The way I read it, the book implied that many of the newly raised Asha'man had been 13x13'd
13/11/2010 04:58:26 PM
- 801 Views
Where are these Dreadlords coming from, then?
21/11/2010 05:15:08 AM
- 1098 Views
LIkely Javindrah as well ... note she shows the exact same behavior as Tarna
13/11/2010 05:04:23 PM
- 884 Views