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Re: *Scratches head* Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 09/11/2010 11:50:00 PM
Now... what is wrong with Egwene wanting to tie the three channeling organizations together? All three of them have lost women to the Seanchan. All of them face an existential crisis if the Seanchan should succeed. They all, at one point, likely intend to strike at the Seanchan...


Actually, I wasn't referring to that agreement. While it does increase Egwene's personal influence, I do think it will be beneficial for all involved.

I was, in fact, referring to her dealings with the Hall of the Tower. Gaining exclusive authority to deal with every other monarch in the Westlands is ridiculous enough, even without that childish trick of "Oh wait, the Dragon Reborn counts as a monarch?" and I really have no idea how the Hall let that pass. Actually, I do, I've been saying throughout The Gathering Storm and even before - Egwene's successes are built on Aes Sedai idiocy. So this is par for the course.

But then there's the rescinding of the tradition that allows the Hall to convene without the Amyrlin. Not saying that it wasn't an idiotic tradition that would naturally lead to deceit and backstabbing, I'm just saying that wasn't the reason why Egwene wanted it abolished. Now she's limited the Hall's ability to operate as a check to the Amyrlin's power. And that's why she did it.

And there's this gathering of people of influence she's calling to stand against Rand - under the White Tower. Tell me, do you really believe that once under Egwene's grasp she'll ever willingly let them go?

Further, for the Last Battle itself, it makes more sense that these women can trust each other as part of a larger sisterhood of channelers. If they each had a stake in the survival and prosperity of the others, then the natural suspicion with which they view each other is bound to diminish. That is definitely a great plus for the LB, and from Egwene's perspective, extremely critical to convince Rand that he shouldn't break the Seals.


The Last Battle is about to appear, and they haven't even agreed to this procedure yet. Even when they do, it'll be two women in each exchange. This not going to have any impact on the Last Battle, and don't even try to use it as a justification.

Elayne: By taking Cairhein, in one stroke she handles several issues. First, Andor's feuds with that nation are necessarily at an end.


I do hope you're kidding. If you're not, then this seems like justification for the Seanchan conquest of the entire continent.

Further, bickering nobles like Ellorien (and those Cairheinin), will have a tougher time opposing her since she is queen of both lands.


So her pursuit of personal power is justified because it will result in additional personal power. This is nonsense. Every other bickering noble is trying to gain additional power and stop their rivals from opposing them too.

Sure, she'll have to continue playing the game, but the benefits for the Last Battle are staggering. A united Two Rivers-Ghealdan-Andor-Cairhein can form a much stronger bulwark against the Shadow, and can also put up a much better fight against the Seanchan.


They'll all be allied against the Shadow anyway.

The Seanchan are also the reason why Egwene will likely really want Elayne as Queen of Cairhein. Tar Valon's southern borders are now under a firm ally. The value of that against the Seanchan is incredible.


I wasn't aware that Egwene had made any particular mention of it, but if she does want Elayne as Queen of Cairhien it's probably so she can have an Aes Sedai as Queen of Cairhien.

As for the Dragons... Elayne has every right to want them, and to want to keep them secret as long as possible. That gives her a much needed edge against the Seanchan. They cannot now simply roll over Andor, and add Aes Sedai to the mix and Andor will be a tough nut to crack indeed.


Of course she does. Every nation is justified in wanting them, it makes their nation more powerful. She has the same justification as Murandy or Tear or Arad Doman or the Seanchan or even the Shadow.

Now, what about the fact that she seizes some of the richest estates in her kingdom from their owners so that she can give them to people she needs to bribe to fulfil her own ambitions? A ruler who claims to have the right to seize your property for her own benefit is in direct violation of one of the three natural rights of John Locke - life, liberty and estate.

Or how about that bit about starting a war with the Two Rivers on the eve of the Last Battle to either soothe her pride or else to increase her own power? Starting a war with one of the Light's champions isn't going to help in the Last Battle, far from. What's your justification for this one, the Seanchan?

Essentially, both these women are getting ready for the Last Battle but also ensuring that after it is won, they don't end up collared slaves of the Seanchan empire.


Yes, you use external threats as a justification for all kinds of political power-seeking. Watch:

Colavaere: Yes, I seized the throne, but with the Last Battle looming, we cannot await for Egwene to decide that she's tired of playing around in Altara and take the Sun Throne herself, Cairhien needs a monarch to restore order and prepare the nation to fight against the Shadow!

Fortuona: We are perfectly justified in attacking and capturing the White Tower. This number of channelers represents an invaluable asset for the Last Battle and under the banner of the Empire they can offer a much stronger bulwark against the Shadow!

And so on.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter

Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
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So about the nobility. - 09/11/2010 06:53:34 AM 1190 Views
Thank you. I couldn't put a finger on why that bothered me. - 09/11/2010 08:27:26 AM 791 Views
Re: Thank you. I couldn't put a finger on why that bothered me. - 09/11/2010 06:56:35 PM 643 Views
that is how suicidial thoughts are usually formed in RL *NM* - 11/11/2010 06:03:21 PM 316 Views
I don't have any problems with this - they are trying to get more power to survive. - 09/11/2010 04:08:22 PM 779 Views
If that power is needed to survive, how will those she takes it from survive? - 09/11/2010 09:23:15 PM 746 Views
I disagree - 09/11/2010 07:28:39 PM 682 Views
Re: I disagree - 09/11/2010 08:26:12 PM 654 Views
Re: I disagree - 09/11/2010 09:29:11 PM 768 Views
Re: I disagree - 10/11/2010 12:30:33 AM 702 Views
Re: I disagree - 10/11/2010 01:07:19 AM 700 Views
Yes, of course... - 10/11/2010 01:36:30 AM 718 Views
If you can stay on subject, yes. - 10/11/2010 03:22:49 AM 881 Views
Re: If you can stay on subject, yes. - 12/11/2010 10:56:44 AM 696 Views
Re: If you can stay on subject, yes. - 14/11/2010 03:13:07 AM 560 Views
*Scratches head* - 09/11/2010 10:59:29 PM 739 Views
Re: *Scratches head* - 09/11/2010 11:50:00 PM 806 Views
Damn... - 10/11/2010 01:27:28 AM 635 Views
Re: Damn... - 10/11/2010 04:38:23 AM 627 Views
Ridiculous - 12/11/2010 07:20:13 AM 767 Views
Uh-huh. - 14/11/2010 03:51:49 AM 693 Views
Re: Damn... - 12/11/2010 11:05:52 AM 657 Views
You make a valid point. - 14/11/2010 02:53:46 AM 931 Views
Re: So about the nobility. - 10/11/2010 05:28:50 PM 669 Views

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