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I do think Ishamel is special Sidious Send a noteboard - 14/09/2009 07:04:03 PM
Demandred, Lanfear, Semirhage, Graendal and Sammael could probably duel one another with unpredictable results, and the result would be 50-50 if they dueled a hundred times. It makes them inferior to Ishamael and Lews Therin, but not to each other.


If Ishamael is superior to the others, I just haven't seen it. The only time he's gained any real advantages has been after Moghedien and Cyndane were mindtrapped and given to him, and that was after he had suffered multiple defeats and been given a new body.

If it came down to an outright fight, and the Dark One commanded them to fight one another to the death using any means necessary, I tend to think Ishamael would be one of the first eliminated - the only thing that seems to keep him from being wiped out is the uneasy amnesty that exists among the Forsaken for most of the series - he shows himself incapable of grasping basic experiences that the others understand very well, most probably because he is partially insane and because of his use of the True Power, probably worse off than many of the male channelers running around insane.

He just never struck me as a legitimate threat in the way Lanfear, Graendal, Sammael, semirhage or Demandred have. Ishamael seems to have suffered the most from the "BS degree in Evil Villainy 101" syndrome.

In fact, I think that there were many Aes Sedai during the Age of Legends who were equal to Lews Therin, all things considered, including Latra Posae Decume - we know Lews Therin's weak points probably better than any channelers at this point, not counting my personal feelings that he is especially attuned to Air, Fire and Spirit with weakness abilities with Water and Earth. He seems to balance quite well with the Forsaken, who were his peers, and channelers of his own comparable potential in terms of capability to channel greater volumes of the Power next to their various skillsets.


I don't really agree with you. I do agree with you that Ishamael has not produced the goods, but I think he is undoubtedly meant to be Rand's counterpart in the Shadow. The series is totally saturated with quotes about his unparalleled power in the Shadow. In fact, if there is anyone we can be sure of, it should be him.

The Guide mentions him as the undoubted top captain general of the Shadow, and probably the first man to turn to the Dark One. He dueled Lews Therin in one of the few known duels of the War of Power in front of the biggest city in the world. He's fought Rand three times, and died, and become the Nae'blis. He commands the other Forsaken. Everything about him suggests that there is something just one step above the others.

As for Lews Therin, I think he was equalled as an allround channeler by only a few people. Mesaana's quote that Demandred would be the undoubted best man of the Age if not for Lews Therin is quite a strong statement, and even Lanfear says that Lews Therin could equal any Aes Sedai in power. He was not strong in everything, much like Rand, but he could perform many feats which other Aes Sedai could not, and he was a masterful channeler to the point that he was chosen to be the highest member of the Hall.
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The top 6 Forsaken - similar in the One Power - 12/09/2009 09:27:20 PM 1743 Views
Some thoughts about Semmy - 12/09/2009 09:59:50 PM 930 Views
Re: Some thoughts about Semmy - 13/09/2009 08:33:28 AM 980 Views
Of course... - 13/09/2009 08:36:39 AM 788 Views
I've been thinking the same for years - 12/09/2009 11:25:02 PM 890 Views
The Big White Book says... - 12/09/2009 11:46:43 PM 958 Views
Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 08:36:37 AM 966 Views
Re: Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 03:16:13 PM 858 Views
Re: Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 05:47:14 PM 897 Views
Fact is, the bwb is untrustworthy - 13/09/2009 05:54:28 PM 818 Views
We must either use all the quotes from the BWB or none of them - 13/09/2009 06:07:46 PM 868 Views
Or... - 13/09/2009 08:41:23 PM 814 Views
Re: Or... - 14/09/2009 04:46:52 AM 781 Views
But, RJ himself said that the BWB was written from the standpoint of a scholar - 14/09/2009 04:42:59 PM 805 Views
Re: Not Aginor - 13/09/2009 08:17:28 PM 778 Views
It all depends on how you define "powerful" - 14/09/2009 02:30:31 AM 895 Views
I agree 101%. *NM* - 14/09/2009 03:49:51 AM 449 Views
I think power is much more than raw strength - 14/09/2009 05:00:10 AM 782 Views
I agree for the most part, but disagree on one thing. - 14/09/2009 07:52:10 PM 902 Views
Re: The top 6 Forsaken - similar in the One Power - 12/09/2009 11:48:03 PM 827 Views
the other reason - 13/09/2009 03:24:24 PM 759 Views
So is graendal similar to lanfear then? - 13/09/2009 05:41:42 PM 765 Views
Graendal could fight Lanfear and win - 13/09/2009 06:01:57 PM 1302 Views
Graendal herself says... - 13/09/2009 09:08:46 PM 783 Views
Re: Graendal herself says... - 14/09/2009 04:48:37 AM 807 Views
Doesn't Graendal have an Angreal now? - 17/09/2009 03:29:10 AM 823 Views
Re: Graendal herself says... - 15/09/2009 05:36:53 PM 696 Views
Lanfear was more powerful than Graendal, but Cyndane has less power - 13/09/2009 10:19:35 PM 766 Views
Re: So is graendal similar to lanfear then? - 13/09/2009 06:05:11 PM 905 Views
I agree with this - 13/09/2009 06:15:24 PM 918 Views
Compulsion=any other deadly weave. Doesn't really change matters - 13/09/2009 10:23:40 PM 784 Views
Excellent point *NM* - 13/09/2009 10:35:08 PM 464 Views
But it did give her an edge, and against two forsaken. *NM* - 13/09/2009 11:12:09 PM 438 Views
Hm? When? *NM* - 14/09/2009 09:04:10 PM 362 Views
tPoD, when she compelled Cyndane and Moghedien. *NM* - 14/09/2009 10:19:23 PM 414 Views
Not at all - 14/09/2009 04:51:48 AM 843 Views
Using Compulsion on someone doesn't seem mechanically different - 14/09/2009 09:03:41 PM 691 Views
I'm not so sure about that - 14/09/2009 09:36:45 PM 794 Views
Totally agree - 14/09/2009 10:26:07 PM 595 Views
I don't agree. - 15/09/2009 04:33:04 PM 907 Views
Re: So is graendal similar to lanfear then? - 14/09/2009 04:34:24 PM 742 Views
But Graendal confronted her... twice! *NM* - 13/09/2009 07:48:29 PM 390 Views
Apparently only the third time counts *NM* - 13/09/2009 08:00:37 PM 423 Views
Really? - 13/09/2009 08:36:33 PM 754 Views
No falsely... - 13/09/2009 11:25:40 PM 982 Views
That's pretty much my opinion in a nutshell - 14/09/2009 04:56:15 AM 911 Views
And, of course, the male and female OP strength ranks might not even correlate that much - 14/09/2009 04:41:58 PM 721 Views
They correlate on some critical points - 14/09/2009 06:57:43 PM 811 Views
That's not exactly what I'm referring to. - 15/09/2009 04:36:29 PM 671 Views
But then we are discussing the same thing - 15/09/2009 06:59:04 PM 812 Views
I think, outside of semantics, our main disagreement doesn't lie amid the higher tiers - 16/09/2009 03:53:09 PM 685 Views
Probably - 16/09/2009 06:31:27 PM 832 Views
Re: Probably - 16/09/2009 07:19:03 PM 797 Views
Re: Probably - 16/09/2009 08:59:31 PM 750 Views
Re: Probably - 18/09/2009 07:03:09 PM 1083 Views
Ahh the old debate... - 17/09/2009 12:42:36 AM 769 Views
Re: Ahh the old debate... - 17/09/2009 05:26:52 AM 715 Views
I only disagree on one point, I think they are all rather equal in potential, incl. Ishamael - 14/09/2009 04:28:12 PM 771 Views
I do think Ishamel is special - 14/09/2009 07:04:03 PM 857 Views
He's special the same way any individual is special. - 14/09/2009 11:36:42 PM 813 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 08:36:20 AM 794 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 03:48:34 PM 778 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 04:39:39 PM 773 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 04:53:00 PM 751 Views
Re: He's special the same way any individual is special. - 15/09/2009 06:47:45 PM 730 Views
The more interesting question is... - 14/09/2009 06:34:11 PM 724 Views
Hmmm - 14/09/2009 07:04:34 PM 751 Views
I think we'll see Graendal vs. Aran'gar. - 14/09/2009 07:31:16 PM 823 Views
Ah yes, that makes sense, and would be great! *NM* - 14/09/2009 07:40:29 PM 616 Views
Yeah. Though I think its no competition. Graendal has got to be better than a walking tree! - 14/09/2009 07:50:09 PM 710 Views
They do imply that Graendal is a lot more dangerous than she looks - 14/09/2009 09:08:43 PM 739 Views
I've never underestimated Graendal - 14/09/2009 09:42:49 PM 790 Views
Yeah... her frivolity was always a red flag for me too. - 14/09/2009 10:18:40 PM 770 Views
To me, she is the most lethal. - 15/09/2009 05:18:10 PM 595 Views
Yup... - 15/09/2009 06:39:20 PM 640 Views
I still like Lanfear more - 15/09/2009 06:51:03 PM 724 Views
Bah! She's an idiot! - 15/09/2009 07:06:06 PM 738 Views
only in love *NM* - 15/09/2009 07:23:29 PM 703 Views
Graendal did not beat me and Moghedien - 15/09/2009 05:59:39 PM 818 Views
Agreed - 15/09/2009 06:36:48 PM 715 Views
Ummm... how do we know? - 15/09/2009 06:40:57 PM 837 Views
Re: Ummm... how do we know? - 15/09/2009 06:56:21 PM 758 Views
Hmmm... - 15/09/2009 07:07:45 PM 918 Views

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