Again you fail to note that the AS haven't used those "systems" of theirs
Mik Send a noteboard - 28/10/2010 09:02:15 PM
or to punish for them when they do happen (no one is denying they do happen)
1. Rape ... Myrelle and Nisao and Alanna have all feared what they know will be severe repercussions when/if this knowledge gets out. Myrelle and Nisao may even be forced to give up their Warders as part of their crimes.
Ofcourse the purpetrators fear punishment, but it's never doled out. You're proving my point; as of yet, the rape continues and isn't being punished or even stopped, while other members of their organisation know about it.
Even worse; not only do they fail to stop it, they use the rapist to have some control over the victim.
Again, I want to point out I don't see the same harm the Aes Sedai apparently see when bonding men agains their will. But that doesn't matter; the White Tower and the Aes Sedai consider it rape. So why don't they punish the purpetrator accordingly for this atrocity and help the victim?
2. When did an AS start a war? Bonwin is the last one we know of and she was Deposed and Stilled
Both are organizations that can do a lot of harm, but the Aes Sedai have more checks and balances on their power than do the Whitecloaks.
Yeah right. They have the Thirteenth Depository, to hide their dirty laundry. Even without the 13th Depo, they rather hide how they harmed the world, for the sake of the Tower's reputation.Here's something for you to ponder on those "checks and balances" (cough*laugs*cough):
KoD, Chapter 24:
Tell me if you can. what mistakes did Shein Chunla make that caused the Third War of Garen's Wall? What were the causes of the Great Winter War between Andor and Cairhien? What caused the Weikin Rebellion and how did it end? Most of history seems to be the study of wars, and the important parts of that are how and why they began and how and why ended. A great many wars would never have taken place if people had paid attention to the mistakes others had made. [that's why Aes Sedai checks & balances keeps them SECRET! LOL] Well?"
"Shein didn't make any mistakes," Egwene said slowly, "but you're right. I do have a lot to learn. I don't even know the names of those other wars." Rising, she poured herself a cup of tea from the silver pitcher on the side table. Aside from the ropework silver tray, the tabletop held a stuffed lynx and the skull of a serpent. That was as big as a man's skull!
Bennae frowned, but not for the tea. She hardly seemed to notice that. "What do you mean Shein didn't make any mistakes, child?
Why, she bungled the situation as badly as ever I've heard of."
"Well before the Third War of Garen's Wall," Egwene said, returning to her chair, "Shein was doing exactly as the Hall told her and nothing they didn't." She might be lacking in other areas of history, but Siuan had tutored her thoroughly in the mistakes made by other Amyrlins. And this particular question gave her an opening. Sitting down normally took a great effort.
"What are you talking about?"
"She tried running the Tower with an iron hand, never a compromise on anything, running roughshod over any opposition. The Hall grew tired of it, but they couldn't settle on a replacement, so rather than deposing her, they did worse. They left her in place and forced a penance on her whenever she tried to issue an order of any kind. Any kind at all." She knew she was going on, sounding as if she were the one giving a lecture, but she had to get it all out. Not easing herself on the hard wood of the chair seat was difficult. Welcome the pain. "The Hall ran Shein and the Tower. But they mishandled a great deal themselves, largely because each Ajah had its own goals and there was no hand to shape them into a goal for the Tower. Shein's reign was marked by wars all over the map. Eventually, the sisters themselves got tired of the Hall's bungling. [They got "tired"? War everywhere? Checks and Balances! Petty, self-centered, bickering bitches is what they are] In one of the six mutinies in Tower history. Shein and the Hall were pulled down. I know she supposedly died in the Tower of natural causes, but, in fact, she was smothered in her bed in exile fifty-one years later after the discovery of a plot to put her back on the Amyrlin Seat." [Mutiny, murder, wars...all kept under the hat!]
"Mutinies?" Bennae said incredulously. "Six of them? Exiled and smothered?"
"It's all recorded in the secret histories, in the Thirteenth Depository. Though I suppose I shouldn't have told you that." Egwene took a sip of tea and grimaced. It was all but rancid. No wonder Bennae had not touched hers.
"Secret histories? A thirteenth Depository? If such a thing existed, and I think I would know, why should you not have told me?" [GOOD QUESTION! Because the Aes Sedai system is so good and fair I guess!]
Like you said, the Aes Sedai can easily do a lot of harm because of their influence. And as we see above, it's "rule" led to wars, mutiny and murder. A tower-wide boo boo, covered with secrecy, so they can't even learn from it in the future. The currect Aes Sedai system is more rotten then poor Almen's apples before Rand came along....
3. Severe treatment of prisoners. Elaida was punished by the Hall to the maximum sentence allowed for her offense. Point of fact they didn't consider Egwene a prisoner, simply a Novice and they punished the Highest AS in the land for beating her up.
Just because severe torture of an initiate has a joke of a punishment, doesn't make it justice.But let's just skip the king and Egwene to make the discussion easier. Let's focus on Rand -a prisoner kept in a small box- who was beaten severely every-single-day, for weeks. With a lot of Aes Sedai around who didn't do a thing but watch the spectacle.
This is an evil, wicked deed -an atrocity to the letter of every definition you can find- and it went unpunished during and after it took place.
In contrast we have the Whitecloaks who murdered every member of a village simply to keep their presence a secret. And later, even though Carridin's had been reported to Niall NOTHING was done, in fact, he was made an Ambassador to a land the WCs had long coveted.
Easily the worst atrocity of the whole lot. Like I said previously; this isn't about finding two completely similar events. This is about comparing different atrocities and comparing if they were punished accordinly.I'm not trying to make 'mass murder' and 'rape' the same crime.
I'm trying to see how both these atrocities were acted (or the lack therof) upon by the organisations whose members commited those atrocities.
That's all
Mik ~ Ishamaels halfmad 'brother'
Death dances in my footsteps....
Death dances in my footsteps....
The Children of the Light and the White Tower
20/10/2010 08:32:10 PM
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Re: The Children of the Light and the White Tower
20/10/2010 08:58:12 PM
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The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards.
20/10/2010 09:05:55 PM
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Re: The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards.
21/10/2010 12:15:48 AM
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Re: The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards.
21/10/2010 02:59:49 PM
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Re: The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards.
21/10/2010 04:35:00 PM
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And farmers are, of course, treated the same as rebel officers and usurpers and mutineers.
23/10/2010 03:07:10 PM
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Re: The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards.
21/10/2010 07:55:06 PM
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And there is no indication of how far that went.
23/10/2010 03:12:42 PM
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"The question" as opposed to "questioning"
24/10/2010 06:21:43 PM
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And that would indicate everyone does it, if it is so commonly used, so how are the CoL worse? *NM*
25/10/2010 01:14:13 AM
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Re: The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards.
24/10/2010 06:53:19 AM
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The utter stupidity of this statement caught my eye...
24/10/2010 08:12:58 AM
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Your analyses and extension of concepts always brings that "utter stupidity" phrase to my mind.
25/10/2010 02:17:10 AM
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Huh? ... what !! ... are you mad?
21/10/2010 05:05:16 PM
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Did you forget the very first PoV Darkfriend in the series?
23/10/2010 03:27:25 PM
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Difference being the whitecloaks who were ordered to do it were not DFs. All the AS evil deeds
23/10/2010 07:55:23 PM
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So similar scenes in the Cairhienin civil war were all the work of Darkfriends?
25/10/2010 02:25:57 AM
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Please provide an example of a DF AS committing an atrocity and not being punished by the Tower
25/10/2010 03:34:46 AM
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Just one? Here's a list from the top of my head in 60 secs:..
25/10/2010 09:28:10 AM
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Re: Just one? Here's a list from the top of my head in 60 secs:..
25/10/2010 04:14:05 PM
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Not to mention it's not like any of these have been without repercussion!
25/10/2010 04:50:39 PM
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Re: Not to mention it's not like any of these have been without repercussion!
27/10/2010 01:06:53 PM
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You under some delusion that I'm defending the AS
27/10/2010 08:29:14 PM
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No. I'm pointing out you are under the delusion that AS pay for their atrocities.
28/10/2010 09:16:38 AM
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okay, so AS never Still and execute AS for doing stuff ... have you read the series?
28/10/2010 05:20:28 PM
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That doesn't make the -unpunished- atrocities disappear, you know. Your point is lame AND moot.
28/10/2010 07:07:27 PM
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Re: That doesn't make the -unpunished- atrocities disappear, you know. Your point is lame AND moot.
28/10/2010 07:09:33 PM
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To echo Darius...
23/10/2010 08:34:00 PM
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Re: To echo Darius...
25/10/2010 10:03:14 AM
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Go look up the definition of the word atrocity
25/10/2010 04:53:55 PM
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Their implicit role in the genocide of Manetheren was probable their greatest atrocity *NM*
26/10/2010 03:01:01 AM
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You mean the act that got Tetsuan deposed, Stilled and sentenced to hard labor until she gave up the
26/10/2010 04:19:45 AM
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Ya, the ultimated punishment of cleaning pots and floors NOOOOOOOO!!!
26/10/2010 11:59:51 PM
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Maybe you should have done that yourself: "behaviour or an action that is wicked or ruthless"
27/10/2010 11:11:30 AM
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the fact that you can't differentiate between the extermination of an entire village
27/10/2010 08:30:12 PM
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READ; I *did* differentiate between them. It doesn't change the fact all are atrocious deeds
28/10/2010 09:00:56 AM
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28/10/2010 05:22:18 PM
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You asked for atrocities and you got them. Now you just don't know what to do with them.
28/10/2010 06:49:16 PM
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dude, you gave us a list of petty crimes and compared it to mass murder
28/10/2010 06:59:33 PM
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Complete the thought...
28/10/2010 07:11:37 PM
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seems I must do so for this guy to understand ... and I'm not holding my breath on that!
28/10/2010 08:24:57 PM
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Rape, murder, starting wars and doing noting about them, kidnap / severe torture of prisoners... *NM*
28/10/2010 07:51:33 PM
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again you fail to note that the AS have systems in place to prevent these things
28/10/2010 08:23:32 PM
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Again you fail to note that the AS haven't used those "systems" of theirs
28/10/2010 09:02:15 PM
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What wars did they start?
28/10/2010 08:56:46 PM
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You should be an Aes Sedai; the way you can twist truth would scare Siuan.
28/10/2010 09:07:24 PM
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28/10/2010 07:07:57 PM
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Take your own advice, please
28/10/2010 07:30:51 PM
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Come on. Just say it. Real men don't act like catty, bitchy women. *NM*
20/10/2010 11:14:49 PM
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"Rightly hold responsible for the threat of the Shadow?" Puh-leeze
21/10/2010 12:06:34 AM
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Puh-leeze right back at you:
21/10/2010 08:24:12 AM
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The Wheel was created so the DO could break in. The Creator plays his game with the DO thru people
21/10/2010 01:45:07 PM
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It was you who brought up that silly Real World kitchen example, silly.
25/10/2010 10:55:29 AM
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I could say you zinged me, but you're just bent on silliness. Bored now. *NM*
25/10/2010 10:54:41 PM
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Your personal theories do not constitute evidence, and your aberrant logic better supports MY case
21/10/2010 03:21:44 PM
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Objection, your honor! Bringing evidentiary rules into this is asinine! *NM*
21/10/2010 11:22:19 PM
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The word "evidence" is not exclusive to the practice of jurisprudence
23/10/2010 03:31:57 PM
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Rational thinking. Well, you use the word "deserved" in all caps. Nuff said. *NM*
23/10/2010 04:55:02 PM
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Emphasis means nothing one way or another as far as rationality goes, which you would know...
25/10/2010 01:13:23 AM
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You know zilch about my acquaintances. "mk" was wrong - you're not an idiot. But you are ignorable. *NM*
25/10/2010 10:57:04 PM
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21/10/2010 01:47:19 AM
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Not so sure about that
21/10/2010 02:29:02 AM
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the city is closed to WC
21/10/2010 04:01:45 AM
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Re: the city is closed to WC
21/10/2010 04:55:45 AM
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But that is irrelevant. Aes Sedai can also go to Amadicia in disguise. *NM*
21/10/2010 05:35:18 AM
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But they aren't in disguise
21/10/2010 08:31:38 AM
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They don't wear their uniform, their one identifying feature. That is a disguise.
21/10/2010 09:08:25 PM
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Re: They don't wear their uniform, their one identifying feature. That is a disguise.
22/10/2010 02:10:07 PM
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CotL are welcome in Tar Valon to have a drink. Aes Sedai are hanged when found in Amadicia..
21/10/2010 08:33:03 AM
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Now hang on a minute!
21/10/2010 07:28:45 AM
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Re: Now hang on a minute!
21/10/2010 10:49:34 AM
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it would be an interesting comparison if they weren't completely different organizations
21/10/2010 04:09:31 PM
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