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Their own organisation calls it rape. Simple. Mik Send a noteboard - 28/10/2010 08:26:49 PM
Again, taking darius his road of finding petty excuses. But again, you're doing an even worse job then he was. She mentally -raped- someone. All the Aes Sedai think so.

How would -you- feel being mentally raped and the excuse for keeping the purpetrator around near you, is because that poor rapist just lost his mama and his little doggy. Boo-hoo!

Oh what nonsense. Since when is bonding someone against their will a 'mental rape'? The other Aes Sedai consider it to be a crime, but like your other arguments you're taking it to the extreme.

No Sidious. Personally, I couldn't care less who bonds who.
But it's a fact the Aes Sedai themselves consider 'bonding someone against their will' an act nothing short of rape.

So by the Tower's -own- standards, this is an atrocity. Or would you not call 'rape' an atrocity? I've even went so far as to look up what atrocity means. If I really have to debate that, then I do think we're done.

Here's just some quotes from the books I should read to show you:

LoC:
Seating herself so she, Seonid and Masuri surrounded the pair, Merana adjusted her skirts and shawl carefully. There was some moral ascendancy in being seated while the others remained standing. To her, what Alanna had done was little short of rape.
.../ /... Maybe it was not short of rape at all.

ACoS:
At last the puzzle came clear for Egwene [the Amyrlin Seat now, so she should know Tower rule]. She knew she should feel the same disgust as Siuan. Aes Sedai put bonding a man against his will on a level with rape. He had as much chance to resist as a farmgirl would if a man the size of Lan cornered her in a barn. If three men the size of Lan did. .../ /... Hypocrisy was a fine art among Aes Sedai sometimes, like scheming or keeping secrets.

Your arguments are completely unbalanced, and when someone mentions it, you claim that they approve of the crime.
No. I ask if they wouldn't rank 'rape, murder, severe torture of a prisoner and instigating wars as atrocities. And if not that, then what is it?
My arguments aren't unbalanced. Like I showed you 'bonding against will' is considered rape, while I myself could care less.

According to you a guy is walking along and someone swears at him, and you name this an atrocity and say that 'his soul was ripped to pieces'... Get a grip.
Your 'argument' is completely unbalanced here. I didn't do anything closely resembling that.

These are silly excuses! What's next? We wait for Siuan to hang Novices, because she lost Aldric and she's feeling really, really sad? Awww. Poor Siuan *pat on the head*.
???
Fionwe was making an excuse for rape because the rapist was having mental issues. You should have put those "???" there.

And not -one- Aes Sedai did a goddamn thing about it. Not one. Elaida got away with both without so much a scratch!
Even worse, Stephanos was kept in the Tower!
I'm going to say this nicely; sorry, but you're really wrong here. The whole Tower knew Stephaneos was held captive for all the wrong reasons. You might want to re-read Egwene's encounter with Stephaneos and see how the Red Sister panics who tags along (as a prison guard) when Egwene tells Stephaneos the truth. The Tower knew. Instead of punishing Elaida for nothing short of an act of war, they -helped- her keep the sharade up, to protect the Tower's interests & "reputation" (what was left of it at that point)

Because Elaida is a tyrant and ruthlessly punished her adversaries in ways previously unknown to the Tower. Secondly, you're more upset that the King is. You act like he's one of Semirhage's victims. What is wrong with you, man?
On the first; all the more reason to act.
Secondly; I've quoted how the king responds at first. He's furious. But what's a -prisoner- supposed to do? He -unlike you- realizes the situation he's in. He's at the mercy of his kindappers.


Oh my lord. This isn't -about- a contest if the Whitecloaks are worse or better then Aes Sedai! This is about showing that -like the Whitecloaks- the Aes Sedai have their fair share of atrocities that remain unpunished, used in an appalling way or hidden away in a secret Depository.

It's not about exactly matching atrocities. It's about both organisations having members who commit certain atrocities and getting away with it!

Just. shed. those. pink. glasses.


Dude, the only one who is delusional here is you. You don't know what an atrocity is. To you it's any violation of the law, or any misdemeanour against a person. If someone steals your candy you'd probably consider it an atrocity. No one disputes the fact that the Tower does illegal and rubbish things, but you have no problem comparing kidnapping the unharmed King to mass murdering a whole village. No wonder the other posters are starting to becoming offensive.
You know what.
I give up.

Happy?
Mik ~ Ishamaels halfmad 'brother'

Death dances in my footsteps....
This message last edited by Mik on 28/10/2010 at 08:29:42 PM
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The Children of the Light and the White Tower Cannoli - 20/10/2010 08:32:10 PM 2440 Views
Re: The Children of the Light and the White Tower moratcorlm - 20/10/2010 08:58:12 PM 1102 Views
The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards. Cannoli - 20/10/2010 09:05:55 PM 1233 Views
Re: The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards. moratcorlm - 21/10/2010 12:15:48 AM 1142 Views
Re: The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards. Cannoli - 21/10/2010 02:59:49 PM 1131 Views
Hehe. Touché! *NM* Mik - 21/10/2010 03:05:02 PM 593 Views
Re: The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards. Datakim - 21/10/2010 04:35:00 PM 950 Views
And farmers are, of course, treated the same as rebel officers and usurpers and mutineers. Cannoli - 23/10/2010 03:07:10 PM 1029 Views
Re: The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards. moratcorlm - 21/10/2010 07:55:06 PM 1057 Views
And there is no indication of how far that went. Cannoli - 23/10/2010 03:12:42 PM 914 Views
"The question" as opposed to "questioning" moratcorlm - 24/10/2010 06:21:43 PM 971 Views
And that would indicate everyone does it, if it is so commonly used, so how are the CoL worse? *NM* Cannoli - 25/10/2010 01:14:13 AM 628 Views
Re: The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards. rAndy aL - 24/10/2010 06:53:19 AM 1187 Views
But that explains their actions Cannoli - 25/10/2010 01:41:50 AM 997 Views
Don't turn this around on the Aes Sedai rAndy aL - 27/10/2010 10:53:27 AM 1121 Views
The utter stupidity of this statement caught my eye... fionwe1987 - 24/10/2010 08:12:58 AM 948 Views
Your analyses and extension of concepts always brings that "utter stupidity" phrase to my mind. Cannoli - 25/10/2010 02:17:10 AM 1116 Views
Huh? ... what !! ... are you mad? Sidious - 21/10/2010 05:05:16 PM 1070 Views
Did you forget the very first PoV Darkfriend in the series? Cannoli - 23/10/2010 03:27:25 PM 1050 Views
Difference being the whitecloaks who were ordered to do it were not DFs. All the AS evil deeds darius_sedai - 23/10/2010 07:55:23 PM 1067 Views
So similar scenes in the Cairhienin civil war were all the work of Darkfriends? Cannoli - 25/10/2010 02:25:57 AM 1004 Views
Please provide an example of a DF AS committing an atrocity and not being punished by the Tower darius_sedai - 25/10/2010 03:34:46 AM 968 Views
Just one? Here's a list from the top of my head in 60 secs:.. Mik - 25/10/2010 09:28:10 AM 1026 Views
Re: Just one? Here's a list from the top of my head in 60 secs:.. Sidious - 25/10/2010 04:14:05 PM 1159 Views
Not to mention it's not like any of these have been without repercussion! darius_sedai - 25/10/2010 04:50:39 PM 897 Views
Re: Not to mention it's not like any of these have been without repercussion! Mik - 27/10/2010 01:06:53 PM 1048 Views
You under some delusion that I'm defending the AS darius_sedai - 27/10/2010 08:29:14 PM 980 Views
No. I'm pointing out you are under the delusion that AS pay for their atrocities. Mik - 28/10/2010 09:16:38 AM 936 Views
okay, so AS never Still and execute AS for doing stuff ... have you read the series? darius_sedai - 28/10/2010 05:20:28 PM 954 Views
That doesn't make the -unpunished- atrocities disappear, you know. Your point is lame AND moot. Mik - 28/10/2010 07:07:27 PM 1025 Views
Re: That doesn't make the -unpunished- atrocities disappear, you know. Your point is lame AND moot. fionwe1987 - 28/10/2010 07:09:33 PM 902 Views
Strawman argument, Sid. Mik - 27/10/2010 11:35:40 AM 972 Views
To echo Darius... fionwe1987 - 23/10/2010 08:34:00 PM 990 Views
Re: To echo Darius... Mik - 25/10/2010 10:03:14 AM 939 Views
Go look up the definition of the word atrocity darius_sedai - 25/10/2010 04:53:55 PM 957 Views
Their implicit role in the genocide of Manetheren was probable their greatest atrocity *NM* Knightscape - 26/10/2010 03:01:01 AM 583 Views
You mean the act that got Tetsuan deposed, Stilled and sentenced to hard labor until she gave up the darius_sedai - 26/10/2010 04:19:45 AM 1240 Views
Ya, the ultimated punishment of cleaning pots and floors NOOOOOOOO!!! Knightscape - 26/10/2010 11:59:51 PM 937 Views
Maybe you should have done that yourself: "behaviour or an action that is wicked or ruthless" Mik - 27/10/2010 11:11:30 AM 924 Views
the fact that you can't differentiate between the extermination of an entire village darius_sedai - 27/10/2010 08:30:12 PM 971 Views
READ; I *did* differentiate between them. It doesn't change the fact all are atrocious deeds Mik - 28/10/2010 09:00:56 AM 1041 Views
darius_sedai - 28/10/2010 05:22:18 PM 913 Views
You asked for atrocities and you got them. Now you just don't know what to do with them. Mik - 28/10/2010 06:49:16 PM 996 Views
dude, you gave us a list of petty crimes and compared it to mass murder darius_sedai - 28/10/2010 06:59:33 PM 953 Views
Complete the thought... fionwe1987 - 28/10/2010 07:11:37 PM 869 Views
seems I must do so for this guy to understand ... and I'm not holding my breath on that! darius_sedai - 28/10/2010 08:24:57 PM 1012 Views
Rape, murder, starting wars and doing noting about them, kidnap / severe torture of prisoners... *NM* Mik - 28/10/2010 07:51:33 PM 537 Views
again you fail to note that the AS have systems in place to prevent these things darius_sedai - 28/10/2010 08:23:32 PM 962 Views
Again you fail to note that the AS haven't used those "systems" of theirs Mik - 28/10/2010 09:02:15 PM 1165 Views
What wars did they start? fionwe1987 - 28/10/2010 08:56:46 PM 870 Views
You should be an Aes Sedai; the way you can twist truth would scare Siuan. Mik - 28/10/2010 09:07:24 PM 908 Views
Wow... I'm sooo Insulted! fionwe1987 - 28/10/2010 09:23:41 PM 923 Views
fionwe1987 - 28/10/2010 07:07:57 PM 1014 Views
Take your own advice, please Mik - 28/10/2010 07:30:51 PM 940 Views
Re: Take your own advice, please Sidious - 28/10/2010 07:44:59 PM 884 Views
Their own organisation calls it rape. Simple. Mik - 28/10/2010 08:26:49 PM 936 Views
Re: Take your own advice, please fionwe1987 - 28/10/2010 09:18:17 PM 1089 Views
Come on. Just say it. Real men don't act like catty, bitchy women. *NM* Tom - 20/10/2010 11:14:49 PM 585 Views
"Rightly hold responsible for the threat of the Shadow?" Puh-leeze newyorkersedai - 21/10/2010 12:06:34 AM 966 Views
Puh-leeze right back at you: Mik - 21/10/2010 08:24:12 AM 943 Views
The Wheel was created so the DO could break in. The Creator plays his game with the DO thru people newyorkersedai - 21/10/2010 01:45:07 PM 940 Views
It was you who brought up that silly Real World kitchen example, silly. Mik - 25/10/2010 10:55:29 AM 790 Views
I could say you zinged me, but you're just bent on silliness. Bored now. *NM* newyorkersedai - 25/10/2010 10:54:41 PM 541 Views
Your personal theories do not constitute evidence, and your aberrant logic better supports MY case Cannoli - 21/10/2010 03:21:44 PM 1116 Views
Objection, your honor! Bringing evidentiary rules into this is asinine! *NM* newyorkersedai - 21/10/2010 11:22:19 PM 506 Views
The word "evidence" is not exclusive to the practice of jurisprudence Cannoli - 23/10/2010 03:31:57 PM 989 Views
Rational thinking. Well, you use the word "deserved" in all caps. Nuff said. *NM* newyorkersedai - 23/10/2010 04:55:02 PM 529 Views
Emphasis means nothing one way or another as far as rationality goes, which you would know... Cannoli - 25/10/2010 01:13:23 AM 1084 Views
You know zilch about my acquaintances. "mk" was wrong - you're not an idiot. But you are ignorable. *NM* newyorkersedai - 25/10/2010 10:57:04 PM 542 Views
fionwe1987 - 21/10/2010 01:47:19 AM 1105 Views
Not so sure about that moratcorlm - 21/10/2010 02:29:02 AM 1021 Views
Re: Not so sure about that fionwe1987 - 21/10/2010 03:57:34 AM 1036 Views
the city is closed to WC Foxhead - 21/10/2010 04:01:45 AM 1066 Views
Re: the city is closed to WC moratcorlm - 21/10/2010 04:55:45 AM 907 Views
But that is irrelevant. Aes Sedai can also go to Amadicia in disguise. *NM* fionwe1987 - 21/10/2010 05:35:18 AM 486 Views
But they aren't in disguise moratcorlm - 21/10/2010 08:31:38 AM 942 Views
They don't wear their uniform, their one identifying feature. That is a disguise. fionwe1987 - 21/10/2010 09:08:25 PM 898 Views
Re: They don't wear their uniform, their one identifying feature. That is a disguise. moratcorlm - 22/10/2010 02:10:07 PM 979 Views
Don't be ridiculous... fionwe1987 - 22/10/2010 04:52:55 PM 932 Views
No different moratcorlm - 23/10/2010 02:26:24 PM 1029 Views
CotL are welcome in Tar Valon to have a drink. Aes Sedai are hanged when found in Amadicia.. Mik - 21/10/2010 08:33:03 AM 1051 Views
Here is to hoping Egwene can get her head out of her ass. Hot Pie - 21/10/2010 10:30:10 AM 999 Views
Now hang on a minute! ˥ɐ ʎpu∀ɹ - 21/10/2010 07:28:45 AM 1155 Views
Re: Now hang on a minute! moratcorlm - 21/10/2010 10:49:34 AM 1056 Views
Re: Now hang on a minute! rAndy aL - 21/10/2010 11:28:55 PM 1062 Views
Re: Now hang on a minute! moratcorlm - 22/10/2010 01:08:14 AM 1014 Views
IMO, the main difference between Egwene & Galad is... Mik - 21/10/2010 12:36:53 PM 1089 Views
it would be an interesting comparison if they weren't completely different organizations Zaphod - 21/10/2010 04:09:31 PM 1100 Views
You! Macharius - 22/10/2010 02:28:07 PM 1040 Views
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