And what exactly makes that a war? The Whitecloaks seem to be the only ones actually continuing the conflict. Except for some illusions and a couple of pesky novices anyway.
Just because one side is powerful enough to ignore the other does not invalidate the state of mind of the Children. Their actions are explained by their own mentality. The lack of overt fighting back does not alter their own position. We have a very good idea about this even without the PoV Trap. (Seriously, you used to have a point with that, but now you just seem to use it to justify actions that are portrayed in a negative way.) Aes Sedai are all darkfriends. Warders are darkfriends.
We're talking about people who channel. If you accept their admittedly flawed first premise, the rest follows naturally. Anyone with a supernatural ability is a darkfriend.
This is hardly a fault solely to be placed at the feet of the Children of the Light. The Aes Sedai are little different. The Children's problem is they have no way to deal with such things short of getting rid of them. The knee-jerk reaction of most sisters to wolfbrothers and sniffers is suspicion. It's easy to be tolerant once you can safely establish that you outweigh them on the scale of supernatural power by several orders of magnitude. Anyone who associates with darkfriends is a darkfriend.
Under suspicion, certainly. Siuan uses much more dubious links to advise the Amyrlin Seat that Cadsuane, the Aes Sedai engaged in the single most important task of any sister in the world at the time, was suspected of being a Darkfriend as well. Anyone who doesn't like the Whitecloaks interfering with their daily lives is a darkfriend. You can stop blaming the PoV Trap because we actually see this happening! Rand is accused of being a darkfriend for behaving like a drunken idiot. The main characters were all darkfriends for travelling at night with a "darkfriend" (Rand).
Eh, he was young and new. You can hardly blame them for being suspicious. The entire two rivers was a land of darkfriends for fortifying themselves against Trollocs and also figuring out they could now tell the Whitecloaks to get stuffed when they want to evangelise.
Actually, it was the Trolloc infestation that gave Ordeith's supernaturally-reinforced accusations credibility. Are we going to start evaluating Mat's attempted murder while under the influence of the Shadar Logoth dagger as a character flaw? Even the White Tower's servants are darkfriends!
Who else would willingly serve the arch-minions of the Dark One? Most of them are not the kind of "darkfriends" that would actually be killed (except for the supernatural ones). Confess you're a darkfriends, promise to walk in the light, or die. Clearly a model organisation.
Well, maybe if we ever saw them receiving the slightest modicum of cooperation from anyone they did not absolutely have under their thumbs, they wouldn't think they had to push so hard all the time. Recall that they DID try the peaceful approach at first, before turning to military methods. It is a valid possibility that they were driven to it by persecution of powerful individuals or groups who resented the preachers' claims that they might be harboring darkfriends, and that possibility is equally likely compared to those which reflect more poorly on them. How benevolent could the Tower afford to be if they were not able to seize and enforce a monopoly over their specialty.
And none of this alters the issue I originally brought up. This is a massive time of change in WoT, and a lot of slates are being wiped blank. If the group that literally destroyed the world three thousand years ago can be rehabilitated and given a fresh start (with not a single individual yet shown to display the moral character of Galad Damodred or the service to the Light of Lord Captain Trom), why not the Children? I was comparing their organizations' reactions to the CURRENT similar crises, and everyone else starts bringing up old issues that they themselves are putting in the past because there are more important things to deal with (a notion that has occurred to maybe .6% of Aes Sedai).
I think the kinds of response I get to this are seriously indicative of some major mental flaws in the contemporary mindset. Whatever is going on in the popular zeitgeist, you people all get so hung up on the use of torture that you instinctively sympathize with the group that does a better job of hiding it, despite their far more egregious crimes against freedom. The suppression of other channeling organizations, and the brutalizing channelers who have no obligations or ties to their authority but choose to associate on their own are far more egregious crimes than being a bit rough when occupying a vacuum of authority. The former strike at the very concepts of personal freedom and free will and justice, whereas the worst one can quarrel with the Children over is their methods. The Tower pursues absolutely evil (with a lowercase 'e' ) goals, and because they are nice about it, that's all cool. But just because the Children become so sidetracked that they lost track of their mission in a way that just happens to touch on something held in public revulsion in contemporary society, they cannot even be given credit for their positive efforts in the current time.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
The Children of the Light and the White Tower
20/10/2010 08:32:10 PM
- 2368 Views
Re: The Children of the Light and the White Tower
20/10/2010 08:58:12 PM
- 1038 Views
The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards.
20/10/2010 09:05:55 PM
- 1157 Views
Re: The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards.
21/10/2010 12:15:48 AM
- 1077 Views
Re: The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards.
21/10/2010 02:59:49 PM
- 1054 Views
Re: The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards.
21/10/2010 04:35:00 PM
- 886 Views
And farmers are, of course, treated the same as rebel officers and usurpers and mutineers.
23/10/2010 03:07:10 PM
- 956 Views
Re: The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards.
21/10/2010 07:55:06 PM
- 985 Views
And there is no indication of how far that went.
23/10/2010 03:12:42 PM
- 848 Views
"The question" as opposed to "questioning"
24/10/2010 06:21:43 PM
- 907 Views
And that would indicate everyone does it, if it is so commonly used, so how are the CoL worse? *NM*
25/10/2010 01:14:13 AM
- 596 Views
Re: The one known rapist was, by his own admission, committing a crime against their standards.
24/10/2010 06:53:19 AM
- 1100 Views
But that explains their actions
25/10/2010 01:41:50 AM
- 898 Views
The utter stupidity of this statement caught my eye...
24/10/2010 08:12:58 AM
- 885 Views
Your analyses and extension of concepts always brings that "utter stupidity" phrase to my mind.
25/10/2010 02:17:10 AM
- 1061 Views
Huh? ... what !! ... are you mad?
21/10/2010 05:05:16 PM
- 991 Views
Did you forget the very first PoV Darkfriend in the series?
23/10/2010 03:27:25 PM
- 976 Views
Difference being the whitecloaks who were ordered to do it were not DFs. All the AS evil deeds
23/10/2010 07:55:23 PM
- 1002 Views
So similar scenes in the Cairhienin civil war were all the work of Darkfriends?
25/10/2010 02:25:57 AM
- 944 Views
Please provide an example of a DF AS committing an atrocity and not being punished by the Tower
25/10/2010 03:34:46 AM
- 890 Views
Just one? Here's a list from the top of my head in 60 secs:..
25/10/2010 09:28:10 AM
- 954 Views
Re: Just one? Here's a list from the top of my head in 60 secs:..
25/10/2010 04:14:05 PM
- 1079 Views
Not to mention it's not like any of these have been without repercussion!
25/10/2010 04:50:39 PM
- 819 Views
Re: Not to mention it's not like any of these have been without repercussion!
27/10/2010 01:06:53 PM
- 982 Views
You under some delusion that I'm defending the AS
27/10/2010 08:29:14 PM
- 904 Views
No. I'm pointing out you are under the delusion that AS pay for their atrocities.
28/10/2010 09:16:38 AM
- 864 Views
okay, so AS never Still and execute AS for doing stuff ... have you read the series?
28/10/2010 05:20:28 PM
- 888 Views
That doesn't make the -unpunished- atrocities disappear, you know. Your point is lame AND moot.
28/10/2010 07:07:27 PM
- 958 Views
Re: That doesn't make the -unpunished- atrocities disappear, you know. Your point is lame AND moot.
28/10/2010 07:09:33 PM
- 838 Views
To echo Darius...
23/10/2010 08:34:00 PM
- 933 Views
Re: To echo Darius...
25/10/2010 10:03:14 AM
- 873 Views
Go look up the definition of the word atrocity
25/10/2010 04:53:55 PM
- 890 Views
Their implicit role in the genocide of Manetheren was probable their greatest atrocity *NM*
26/10/2010 03:01:01 AM
- 557 Views
You mean the act that got Tetsuan deposed, Stilled and sentenced to hard labor until she gave up the
26/10/2010 04:19:45 AM
- 1165 Views
Ya, the ultimated punishment of cleaning pots and floors NOOOOOOOO!!!
26/10/2010 11:59:51 PM
- 857 Views
Maybe you should have done that yourself: "behaviour or an action that is wicked or ruthless"
27/10/2010 11:11:30 AM
- 849 Views
the fact that you can't differentiate between the extermination of an entire village
27/10/2010 08:30:12 PM
- 890 Views
READ; I *did* differentiate between them. It doesn't change the fact all are atrocious deeds
28/10/2010 09:00:56 AM
- 985 Views
28/10/2010 05:22:18 PM
- 843 Views
You asked for atrocities and you got them. Now you just don't know what to do with them.
28/10/2010 06:49:16 PM
- 919 Views
dude, you gave us a list of petty crimes and compared it to mass murder
28/10/2010 06:59:33 PM
- 878 Views
Complete the thought...
28/10/2010 07:11:37 PM
- 806 Views
seems I must do so for this guy to understand ... and I'm not holding my breath on that!
28/10/2010 08:24:57 PM
- 945 Views
Rape, murder, starting wars and doing noting about them, kidnap / severe torture of prisoners... *NM*
28/10/2010 07:51:33 PM
- 512 Views
again you fail to note that the AS have systems in place to prevent these things
28/10/2010 08:23:32 PM
- 901 Views
Again you fail to note that the AS haven't used those "systems" of theirs
28/10/2010 09:02:15 PM
- 1094 Views
What wars did they start?
28/10/2010 08:56:46 PM
- 809 Views
You should be an Aes Sedai; the way you can twist truth would scare Siuan.
28/10/2010 09:07:24 PM
- 850 Views
28/10/2010 07:07:57 PM
- 943 Views
Take your own advice, please
28/10/2010 07:30:51 PM
- 857 Views
Come on. Just say it. Real men don't act like catty, bitchy women. *NM*
20/10/2010 11:14:49 PM
- 557 Views
"Rightly hold responsible for the threat of the Shadow?" Puh-leeze
21/10/2010 12:06:34 AM
- 889 Views
Puh-leeze right back at you:
21/10/2010 08:24:12 AM
- 872 Views
The Wheel was created so the DO could break in. The Creator plays his game with the DO thru people
21/10/2010 01:45:07 PM
- 873 Views
It was you who brought up that silly Real World kitchen example, silly.
25/10/2010 10:55:29 AM
- 714 Views
I could say you zinged me, but you're just bent on silliness. Bored now. *NM*
25/10/2010 10:54:41 PM
- 512 Views
Your personal theories do not constitute evidence, and your aberrant logic better supports MY case
21/10/2010 03:21:44 PM
- 1043 Views
Objection, your honor! Bringing evidentiary rules into this is asinine! *NM*
21/10/2010 11:22:19 PM
- 482 Views
The word "evidence" is not exclusive to the practice of jurisprudence
23/10/2010 03:31:57 PM
- 929 Views
Rational thinking. Well, you use the word "deserved" in all caps. Nuff said. *NM*
23/10/2010 04:55:02 PM
- 503 Views
Emphasis means nothing one way or another as far as rationality goes, which you would know...
25/10/2010 01:13:23 AM
- 1014 Views
You know zilch about my acquaintances. "mk" was wrong - you're not an idiot. But you are ignorable. *NM*
25/10/2010 10:57:04 PM
- 517 Views
21/10/2010 01:47:19 AM
- 1039 Views
Not so sure about that
21/10/2010 02:29:02 AM
- 934 Views
the city is closed to WC
21/10/2010 04:01:45 AM
- 1002 Views
Re: the city is closed to WC
21/10/2010 04:55:45 AM
- 838 Views
But that is irrelevant. Aes Sedai can also go to Amadicia in disguise. *NM*
21/10/2010 05:35:18 AM
- 462 Views
But they aren't in disguise
21/10/2010 08:31:38 AM
- 872 Views
They don't wear their uniform, their one identifying feature. That is a disguise.
21/10/2010 09:08:25 PM
- 809 Views
Re: They don't wear their uniform, their one identifying feature. That is a disguise.
22/10/2010 02:10:07 PM
- 906 Views
CotL are welcome in Tar Valon to have a drink. Aes Sedai are hanged when found in Amadicia..
21/10/2010 08:33:03 AM
- 965 Views
Now hang on a minute!
21/10/2010 07:28:45 AM
- 1090 Views
Re: Now hang on a minute!
21/10/2010 10:49:34 AM
- 980 Views
it would be an interesting comparison if they weren't completely different organizations
21/10/2010 04:09:31 PM
- 1042 Views