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want to back that up with an actual quote from Egwene's mouth? darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 06/10/2010 11:01:09 PM

Egwene specificly says he must be allowed to run free in order to fulfill prophecy. To say that he would be held against his will at this point is absurd.


Except that when she said that she was playing politics and was trying to show how bad Elaida is. Had Elaida been advocating Rand running free, Egwene would most likely have taken the position that Rand would have their "guidance". In most of Egwene's conversations with Siuan when the subject of Rand comes up, Egwene expresses need for Rand to be controlled and under her own guidance.


If Elaida had been okay with letting Rand run around she wouldn't have pulled down Suian and there wouldn't have been a rebellion in the first place. The characters are in the positions they are in because of their beliefs, not coincidence and mindless obstructionism.


I did not say it was so. I was merely trying to illustrate that Egwene was not expressing her own feelings on the matter but rather she expressed the Rand running free option to show how she was different and better compared to Elaida as Rand has pulled off some impressive feats by being "allowed" to run free. Of course she never mentions that Rand's sucsesses usually came about because he went against the "advice" of the Aes Sedai.

When she actually hung out with Rand her opinion usually were that Rand should obey the Aes Sedai(and herself). Not to mention in the latter books when every thought she has regaring Rand and his actions are some variation on how he is a moron and has to guided and controlled for his own good.



TGS
In The White Tower

"What did you intend to do with Rand al'Thor once you captured him?" Egwene said, ignoring the comment.

"I don't—"

"You're not answering me," Egwene said, nodding to the table of women, "but them. Have you explained yourself, Elaida? What were your plans? Or will you dodge this question just as you have the others I've asked?"

Elaida's face was turning red, but she calmed herself with some effort. "I would have kept him secure, and well shielded, here in the Tower until it was time for the Last Battle. That would have prevented him from causing the suffering and chaos he's created in many nations. It was worth the risk of angering him."

"'As the plow breaks the earth shall he break the lives of men, and all that was shall be consumed in the fire of his eyes,'" Egwene said. "'The trumpets of war shall sound at his footsteps, the ravens feed at his voice, and he shall wear a crown of swords.'"

Elaida frowned, taken aback.

"The Karaethon Cycle, Elaida," Egwene said. "When you had Rand locked away to be kept 'secure,' had he yet taken Illian? Had he yet worn what he was to name the Crown of Swords?"

"Well, no."

"And how did you expect him to fulfill the prophecies if he was hidden away in the White Tower?" Egwene said. "How was he to cause war, as the prophecies say he must? How was he to break the nations and bind them to him? How could he 'slay his people with the sword of peace' or 'bind the nine moons to serve him' if he was locked away? Do the prophecies say that he will be 'unfettered'? Do they not speak of the 'chaos of his passing?' How can anything pass at all if he is kept in chains?"

Pretty clear that she has no intention of trying to control what she knows cannot be controlled.


Yes,but to who is she saying it to. put into context it alot less selfless. She is actively trying to undermine Elaida and score political points with the Sitters at this point so telling Elaida that she's right is out of the question. Also, when Rand was doing these things that's so right and nessecray, how did Egwene feel about it? Her general opinon was that Rand was (and still is) an arrogant moron for not obeying Moiraine, the Wise Ones and herself.


She calls him out for being an idiot, but when has she ever done more than throw her arms up in exasperation? You make it sound like she's out there plotting to kidnap him and force him to her bidding.

One of RJs big themes in the series is miss-communication (or total lack of communication). Egwene and Rand being primary examples of people who should be in constant communication, and are not.

And it's not like Egwene is alone in her misconceptions of Rand's actions/thoughts/personality. How many times has Rand said things about Egwene ... here is a quote for you:

TGS
Tears from Steel

“Turn her over to the White Tower, you say?” he said, glancing back into the room. “Which White Tower? Would you entrust her to Elaida? Or did you mean the others? I doubt that Egwene would be pleased if I dropped one of the Forsaken in her lap. Egwene might just let Semirhage go and take me captive instead. Force me to kneel before the White Tower’s justice and gentle me just to give her another notch in her belt.”

Nynaeve frowned. “Rand! Egwene would never—”

“She’s Amyrlin,” he said, downing his cup of wine in one gulp. It was as putrid as he recalled. “Aes Sedai to the core. I’m just another pawn to her.”

I suppose that means Egwene would really do it, because Rand believes it... the worst she's ever done to him throughout the series is call him out for being rude or doing something she saw as stupid. She offered her help at every turn, even when his other friends were afraid to speak to him (Mat). There is zero indication that she would ever do anything other than give him her honest thoughts on how she sees his actions.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 07/10/2010 at 03:51:32 PM
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Chapter 1 released Deadsy - 01/10/2010 01:40:27 PM 5664 Views
For the record, it sucks waiting for you people to wake up and read this Deadsy - 01/10/2010 01:50:02 PM 1383 Views
Deadsy is like the Keebler Elves, but real newyorkersedai - 01/10/2010 04:38:15 PM 1254 Views
Not too much new to work with. Is "she" Egwene? Cads? Someone else? *NM* RandAllThor - 01/10/2010 02:01:12 PM 778 Views
Thanks for the heads up, by the way. *NM* RandAllThor - 01/10/2010 02:01:34 PM 768 Views
Egwene Deadsy - 01/10/2010 02:06:57 PM 1348 Views
Re: Egwene RandAllThor - 01/10/2010 02:15:24 PM 1395 Views
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I've been reading the series sinc e EoTW hit bookshelves circa 1990 darius_sedai - 05/10/2010 11:10:08 PM 1089 Views
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Nonsense Rurouni_Kenshin - 05/10/2010 03:52:31 AM 1185 Views
Re: Nonsense urizen - 05/10/2010 09:53:06 AM 1570 Views
seriously! Read what Egwene actually says sometime... darius_sedai - 06/10/2010 08:17:15 PM 1078 Views
Re: seriously! Read what Egwene actually says sometime... urizen - 06/10/2010 08:40:39 PM 912 Views
want to back that up with an actual quote from Egwene's mouth? darius_sedai - 06/10/2010 11:01:09 PM 1087 Views
Re: want to back that up with an actual quote from Egwene's mouth? urizen - 07/10/2010 09:45:21 PM 1175 Views
Yes, but her comment is far closer to the truth than his! darius_sedai - 07/10/2010 10:18:54 PM 1236 Views
I'd say urizen - 08/10/2010 08:30:17 PM 1104 Views
just like Egwene is 100% correct about AS being compelled darius_sedai - 08/10/2010 10:31:03 PM 1075 Views
Re: just like Egwene is 100% correct about AS being compelled urizen - 09/10/2010 11:46:54 AM 1134 Views
And Egwene was the only person to do things like this? Elayne made a huge public show darius_sedai - 09/10/2010 02:49:13 PM 1236 Views
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ARGH! Spoilers! Spoilers! MINE EYES!!!! Two Wongs - 14/10/2010 08:52:53 AM 1172 Views
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