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Wow, you have a lot to say lol malekithe Send a noteboard - 03/10/2010 08:12:57 AM
I think there's a bigger theme than separate but equal--it's that the greatest power comes from unity. The yin/yang symbol does show two equal and opposite forces, but they unify to create the circle. Throughout the series, we are constantly reminded that the greatest feats were performed by combining Saidin and Saidar.
Meh, that was early book, legendary set-up stuff. It was not intended to be taken as fact, but as mythology explaining the fallen state of the world. As we see in truth, there is a lot less to it than that, and the people who said that were only repeating legends they themselves did not understand the truth of. What did they really accomplish that requires them to be part of the same organization. Some of the greatest feats known have been done without male-female collaboration. Where were the women when the Bore was Sealed? What was the male contribution to using the Bowl of the Winds? How did men and women cooperate to rediscover the lost feats of the AoL? How did the other genders contribute to the independant and unconnected discoveries of the means to Heal severing? Aside from a puddle of saidin that was never used for its intended purpose, and a ward against the most significant artifact of male-female cooperation, what do we know for sure that has been done with men and women working together? What do they even mean by that, now that we understand the Power better? Did they mean collaborating and sharing knowledge or do they mean linking, where only one person is really doing anything, and the others are acting as inert supplements to his or hear strength, as Rand used Nynaeve at the Cleansing. You'd do as well to give Pips an equal share of the credit for Mat's victories as to give Nynaeve equal credit for the Cleansing!

Oh, but who can forget that singular awesome feat of men & women working together - the Bore into the Dark One's prison!

The two together form something greater than the sum of the parts. This is mirrored nicely by the fact that two evils combined--say, Aridhol and the Dark One's taint--annihilate each other, whereas the two forces of good (the two halves of the OP) form something greater.
While residing in seperate bodies. Just as saidin and saidar can never really be weilded in the same body, but require the connivance of a second body, so it should be with channelers. A male channeler linking with a female channeler do not need to be the same person, any more than an Asha'man and an Aes Sedai need to belong to the same Tower in order to share a bond or collaborate on an agenda. The Towers are best kept seperate, where each can fully realize their potential as an exemplar of their gender's thematic strength, while serving as a spur and a goad to the other one. If LTT & LPD had been members of a monolithic structure as exists in contemporary WoT, the world would have been doomed. Either LTT would have been the M'hael with the authority to conscript sisters into his plan to attack the Dark One and the result would have been both halves of the Power being tainted (as has been confirmed by either RJ or BSand or MAFO) or else LPD would have been the Amyrlin, with the authority to forbid LTT from carrying out the strike at all, and dooming the world to conquest by the Dark One. The greater liberties allowed Aes Sedai by their organization would need to orignate organically, and I cannot see a unified organization made by combining two highly regulated and restrictive hierarchies being the sort of loose confederation where a faction can defy their commander in the midst of a desperate total war and refuse to participate in a crucial offensive. Neither the Black nor White Towers could tolerate a Fateful Compact in their midst and I cannot see how their unifying into one organization could bring that about.

The AoL had no separation between male and female Aes Sedai. They split during the War of Power into the LTT/LPD camps, and humanity fell. The Strike did not get full considering from both sides (male/female), and rash actions (the Strike) resulted. A better option may have been available had they worked together.
No, they came up with two options, both foredoomed to failure because they were dependant on each other. LTT's Strike was a good and necessary thing, because even the Breaking is a cheap price to pay to stave off conquest by the Dark One. The alternative offered by the Fateful Compact, if it did not destory the world, would no more have offered a permanent solution than LTTs, even if it had been doable. The Fateful Compact's plan was basically the famous cartoon which shows two scientists looking at a chalkboard covered with complex equations, and in the middle of the equation is written "Then a miracle happens" and the equation continues. That was the women's plan - "I'm sure if we get enough power in one place, we can stop the Dark One." LTT was at least operating on a rational principle: Prison kept him sealed, therefore fixing what was broken will solve the problem of him being free. And it did, except for an unforeseen variable, which the women did not predict. In fact, their dire forewarning did not come about. LTT's assessment in tGS about what caused the taint suggests a similar outcome to any plan that involved using the Power directly against the Dark One. The stalemate was broken for the better in both the planned and the unforeseen outcomes, by LTT IGNORING THE WOMEN AND GOING AHEAD WITH ONLY MEN. By doing so, he saved the world from a. the Dark One and b. TWO tained halves of the Power.

This is why two separate groups are needed - to balance each other out. It's not a balance if both weights are on the same side of the scale! As Nicola Foretold in LoC: "The Guardians BALANCE the Servants." The phrasing not only implies their separation with its use of the word "balance" but by using their peculiar names (which, coincidentally from their world's perspective but probably not from a narrative perspective, are kind of complimentary as well), all but states they will remain discrete groups. Otherwise it would something like "Male servants balance the female" or "male and female balanced in serving all."

The female instinct is to seek security and stability and it is balanced and complemented by the male drive to achieve and gain satiation. That is the explanation for the fading of humanity as described in the early books - the female force has been dominant in an unbalanced manner for at least the last thousand years. The natural preference for stability has turned to stagnation, being unbalanced by the procreative drive of the male forces. The White Tower, seeking peace and maintaining the status qup (because part of that status quo is that the Tower is dominant - allowing any part of that scenario to change could adversely impact the Tower's dominance), would almost certainly oppose wars of conquest or major events that change things significantly. It is no accident that change explodes everywhere almost as soon as the White Tower becomes divided and unable to give its full attention to the outside world. A unified channeling organization would mute the urges in both directions. It would be unable to truly effect either change or stability as the other side in both cases would work against that. With them being seperate, the White Tower can work to bring stability and counteract the strife that comes with change and upheaval, while the Black Tower can exist as a wild card and balancing force to prevent that stability from becoming stagnation. Certainly the general mindset of the Asha'man appears to be more inquisitive and geared towards innovation. The one genuine innovation produced by an establishment sister from the White Tower over the course of the series was the means of detecting male channelers, and that was in reaction to the existance of male channelers. By contrast, the Black Tower and men have been portrayed as more given to experimenting and exploring their abilities, despite the implication that their leader disapproves. By constrast, Egwene's own efforts to promote the exploration and rediscovery of lost Talents get nowhere despite a lack of opposition to the notion.

I would bet that according to the rules of male-female differences in WoT, a world which saw saidar tainted and the world broken by insane female channelers, with a Shadow-Cutter Reborn to face the Dark One, would not have a stagnant world featuring a fading humanity, but rather a vibrant and dynamic society, that was, however, fractured and contentious, with factions, nations and states constantly at war with each other or striving against each other. National boundaries would not be all but set in stone and only significantly changing as the ever-more-debilitated nation lost the ability to control its unchallenged claims, but rather would move back and forth as the changes of fortune in its situation dictated. Latra Posae reborn would not have to rally humanity to the banner of the Light and rouse them to fight and shake up the world; order would not need to burn in order to clear her path; rather she would be a bringer of stability and harmony. Her task would not to be to impose an iron peace to gain obediance, but to rechannel the surging energies of a belligerent humanity to a positive end. Just as Rand's struggle to lead the world is paralleled by his striving to dominate saidin, LPD-Reborn would have to guide the world while serving it. That is the theme of WoT - each gender-force is not complete without the other imposing its own virtues and values upon it. Saidar needs the dynamism of saidin, and saidin needs the tranquility of saidar. You need men to fight and command and women to surrender and guide, but they also are in eternal opposition, continually striving against one another, and that contention between them provides the motive power of the actual Wheel of Time. They cannot contend with each other if they are leashed in harness under the same rein. They are not a black horse and a white horse that can work twice as well in tandem, they are a hawk and a hound that must each be allowed to hunt in its own way in order to bring down the same prey.

I believe that post-TG will see a unification of the Towers, although not before (but possibly during). There's no question that, before humanity unites against the DO, we need the White Tower working firmly under Egwene and the Black Tower led by Logaine.
Yes. Two, distinct groups with two individual leaders. NOT combined as one.
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Will the Black Tower & White Tower unite & if so will men take the 3 oaths? - 01/10/2010 07:27:19 AM 880 Views
Yes to the first, but hopefully no to the second. - 01/10/2010 10:13:25 AM 469 Views
Hopefully no, and it seems like the themes point against it. - 01/10/2010 12:30:16 PM 598 Views
Disagree w/ respect to the Towers unifying - 02/10/2010 07:05:09 PM 430 Views
And look what happened to the AoL - 02/10/2010 09:44:35 PM 542 Views
Wow, you have a lot to say lol - 03/10/2010 08:12:57 AM 488 Views
And rightly so... - 18/10/2010 05:28:39 AM 556 Views
Unify: yes, but not set themselves apart. Oaths: I don't think so. - 07/10/2010 08:53:52 PM 446 Views
unite yes. if oaths then the men will have their own set. *NM* - 03/10/2010 06:19:26 PM 217 Views
What oaths? - 04/10/2010 04:25:13 AM 445 Views
umm no - 11/10/2010 01:25:35 PM 425 Views
Maybe the first, the second can't happen. - 07/10/2010 12:45:10 AM 449 Views
Re: Maybe the first, the second can't happen. - 07/10/2010 06:27:02 AM 448 Views
Re: Maybe the first, the second can't happen. - 07/10/2010 07:12:26 AM 445 Views
Re: Maybe the first, the second can't happen. - 07/10/2010 07:29:36 AM 415 Views
Sammael thinks that if he's holding the Power Graendal can't compel him - 07/10/2010 04:10:07 PM 465 Views
I hope not. And I think the 3 Oaths should go away, as well. - 08/10/2010 03:53:56 PM 419 Views

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