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Hopefully no, and it seems like the themes point against it. Cannoli Send a noteboard - 01/10/2010 12:30:16 PM
Uniting seems likely, except for Taim and his croneys,

Why? How so? In the last book written by Jordan, the nascent movement that could have led that way was quashed in favor of personal relationships. There is a reason the Dragon's Fang and the Flame of Tar Valon remain seperate and distinct on the symbol of the ancient Aes Sedai. Throughout WoT the sign of healthy and functional culture or group has been the maintenance of seperate but equal gender roles. The great act of hubris (boring into the Dark One's prison)comparable to WoT's Tower of Babel or eating the fruit in Eden was an attempt to break through the gender divide between male and female channelers. The separation of the genders was the sole reason humanity retained the ability to channel safely to any degree - had the sexes been united behind Latra Posae, the Dark One would have won; behind Lews Therin, and both powers would have been tainted. The seperation of gender power MUST be maintained in WoT, with only personal relationships permitted to cross that barrier (marriage in normal life, bondings between Aes Sedai & Asha'man).

but will the men take the 3 oaths?

Egwene was brought around to it by Suian after she intended to remove the 3 oaths forever.

It would seem a very unfair advantage that men would remain un oathed and all AS would stay oathed.

Thoughts?


In the first place, it would be strange to have them take the oaths without the Oath Rod, since the sisters in the books only see the latter as binding. No matter how much a woman might live up to the letter or spirit of the Three Oaths, it is swearing on the Oath Rod that makes you a genuine Aes Sedai in their eyes. There has even been some suggestion of blowing off the tests or them not really being necessary for the irregularly-raised sisters, but no one doubts their need to actually swear the Oaths, and even when bringing Nicola into a dangerous and mutinous conspiracy, she is not "allowed" to swear them.

With that mindset, Aes Sedai could never accept as equals and peers within the same group anyone who did not so swear. They might someday come around to treating Wise Ones, Windfinders and Asha'man as equal aliens, but you can't be part of the same organization with Aes Sedai and not swear. That's why Egwene can't do any better for the Kinswomen than second-class citizenship.

In the second place, it isn't really all that much of an advantage to be unsworn. Anyone with half a brain can get around the Oaths, and contrary to the assertions of the moronic character in whose voice the glossary is written, the Oath against lying is actually the most DIFFICULT to circumvent. It is hard to alter the state of truth. As John Adams said, "Facts are stubborn things..." and no matter how we might wish otherwise "...we cannot alter the state of facts." It thus requires a certain degree of stupidity or lack of insight, or else considerable mental gymnastics to get around that one. On the other hand, given the loopholes we see the Oath allow (e.g. Darkfriends being counted as "Shadowspawn", flight not being one of the options you must exhaust before using the Power as a weapon), using the Power as a weapon is ridiculously easy.

All the Oaths really do is prevent Aes Sedai from committing the Tower to a cause or course of action by rash deeds, and give Aes Sedai permission to abstain from taking a stand or making a commitment to any particular side. We see that as a result, the Aes Sedai have developed non-commitance to an art form. When making their deal with the Shaido, Coiren tells the Wise Ones that they "deserve" the condition they are demanding. At least one of the Wise Ones notes her delicacy of phrasing, and her sister, the PoV character smugly confirms to herself the point of Coiren's word choice: it gives the appearance of agreeing without actually committing the Aes Sedai to upholding their end. Since Coiren cannot lie, she DOES believe the Shaido deserve to get what they are asking! She ADMITS they are in their rights to demand this concession in exchange for their promised service, but she deliberately and purposely gives herself an out to screw them over if the sisters should so choose at a later date! They even upheld that condition, so it is plain they had no objection to it - they simply wanted to leave themselves an out if it was convenient.

By ostensibly making any or all violations of the Oaths impossible, the Oath Rod benefits Aes Sedai by giving them the appearance of the spirit of those Oaths - safe, honest & non-violent. In truth all it does is excuse their violations of the spirit or implications of those Oaths, while giving the appearance of upholding them, and protecting Aes Sedai from the consequences of failure to uphold them. No matter how much a sister screws you over or deceives you, if she REALLY needs you to believe her, all she has to do is state something right out and you have to take her word. NO ONE in the world could have gotten away with so much leeway after swearing fealty to Rand if they had first screwed him over as hard as the various Aes Sedai who swore to him did before giving the oath. Would anyone else who had opposed, manipulated and tried to get around Rand as much as Moiraine been given the level of trust he gave her after she swore to obey him and forgo manipulation?
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
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Will the Black Tower & White Tower unite & if so will men take the 3 oaths? - 01/10/2010 07:27:19 AM 880 Views
Yes to the first, but hopefully no to the second. - 01/10/2010 10:13:25 AM 469 Views
Hopefully no, and it seems like the themes point against it. - 01/10/2010 12:30:16 PM 598 Views
Disagree w/ respect to the Towers unifying - 02/10/2010 07:05:09 PM 430 Views
And look what happened to the AoL - 02/10/2010 09:44:35 PM 540 Views
Wow, you have a lot to say lol - 03/10/2010 08:12:57 AM 487 Views
And rightly so... - 18/10/2010 05:28:39 AM 556 Views
Unify: yes, but not set themselves apart. Oaths: I don't think so. - 07/10/2010 08:53:52 PM 446 Views
unite yes. if oaths then the men will have their own set. *NM* - 03/10/2010 06:19:26 PM 217 Views
What oaths? - 04/10/2010 04:25:13 AM 443 Views
umm no - 11/10/2010 01:25:35 PM 425 Views
Maybe the first, the second can't happen. - 07/10/2010 12:45:10 AM 448 Views
Re: Maybe the first, the second can't happen. - 07/10/2010 06:27:02 AM 448 Views
Re: Maybe the first, the second can't happen. - 07/10/2010 07:12:26 AM 444 Views
Re: Maybe the first, the second can't happen. - 07/10/2010 07:29:36 AM 413 Views
Sammael thinks that if he's holding the Power Graendal can't compel him - 07/10/2010 04:10:07 PM 465 Views
I hope not. And I think the 3 Oaths should go away, as well. - 08/10/2010 03:53:56 PM 418 Views

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