Active Users:1140 Time:23/11/2024 04:18:41 AM
Re: Continue being irrational then... iHeartGraendal Send a noteboard - 24/09/2010 03:20:49 AM
Dude, you are a freaking jerk. Your so stuck on your own flawed, internally idealized ideas that you have blindd yourself from eing able to accept any alternat viewpoint, thugh these viewpoints are equally, if not more valid than your own arguments.

A few notes:
- putting a shield on someone can be very easy, it is maintaining that shield that proves to be difficult. Since the timeframe of Graendals shield is just moments, ie- a second or two to shield as she is jumping through gateway, I fail to see why any would see any difficulty n this.

Perhaps it would have been relatively easy for Arangar to break thruogh the shield, given a little time, but this time was lacking. ie- the shock, the distraction of incredible large amount of saidin, and the extreme quickness that these events playd out in were enough to delay arangar enouhg to not break through shield immediately, though she possible could if given time, since Graendal's strength is divded in many ways...

As for detecting the shield, consider what you would do if you felt immense amt of saidin bing wielded. I would certainly reach for source. However, graendal was just a little quicker.. arangar reached just after shield in place, ie fraction of second, and thus could readily sense shield being there. Duh... is ths logic so dfficult for you?


We've seen time and again how many things have proven to change with training ... in the same scene you note with Egwene she seems to think that splitting flows requires more strength, yet by KOD she can split hers a dozen ways and more while barely able to channel.

How is this related? First off, to do all the things Rand did, you do indeed need to be strong. It isn't about how much you split, but about what you can do with those split flows. Egwene, when she was Forkroot weakened, could make almost translucent balls and rings of fire. At her full strength, she could have done much more. That is exactly her point with Rand.

For another, this is a matter of knowledge of the Power. But sensing a shield without reaching for the source is not. No one thought Egwene how to see the glow of channeling, yet she figured it out. No one thought her how to sense channelers. She sensed that in Avi herself, then later in Moiraine, Amys and Melaine. It should be the same with shields placed on you. I don't see why Egwene couldn't have felt that in tSR.

Sensing the ability in another woman is something Nynaeve hasn't learned well as late as KOD too ... yet that's supposed to be instinctive ... why is it so hard to believe that a well educated Channeler would be able to feel a shield being placed on them without trying to embrace the source?

But no one thought that ability to Egwene and Elayne. They learned it themselves. Nynaeve failed at what is a very basic and instinctive ability because she resisted using the OP and was in denial about it for a long time.

Frankly, I don't see what education has to do with sensing a shield from the opposite gender. You either feel a kick or you don't. Education won't change that. I don't see why education would change feeling a shield without attempting to channel.

For example, when Rand was in a box and the Aes Sedai were shielding him, never once did he claim to feel the shield without pushing against it. And yet, at many of those moments, LTT was with him, probing the shield, offering suggestions, etc. No one is more educated than LTT. Yet he too needed to physically push against the shield to feel it, sense the knots, and figure out if they were soft or hard. I'm sure you'll explain that away too, but the fact remains that no one has ever shown this ability, and many have shown definite lack of it.

I fail to see why you are in attack mode over this. But to use your own word ... Classy.

I'm in an attack mode because you're ignoring multiple instances of the text proving you wrong, and twisting what it says to suit your purpose. I remember you being the same way with the OP debates.
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Towers of Midnight : Prologue discussion - 21/09/2010 04:38:40 AM 8392 Views
Me Too! Guess who is alive!! - 21/09/2010 04:44:40 AM 2142 Views
A dove, that's weird - 21/09/2010 03:19:10 PM 1892 Views
Re: A dove, that's weird - 21/09/2010 03:26:39 PM 1837 Views
Yes, that's the point - 21/09/2010 11:49:00 PM 1694 Views
It did feel a bit deus ex machina - 22/09/2010 12:03:05 AM 1800 Views
Fain is as creepy as ever - 21/09/2010 05:06:35 AM 1909 Views
You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) *NM* - 21/09/2010 05:10:47 AM 1197 Views
Re: You all can go to heck (and find me a link!) - 21/09/2010 05:14:26 AM 2004 Views
It's D/L on B&N now *NM* - 21/09/2010 05:15:44 AM 1095 Views
Anyone find the audiobook version? *NM* - 21/09/2010 10:20:22 AM 1070 Views
I love the borderlanders - 21/09/2010 05:25:29 AM 1871 Views
Best scene of the prologue *NM* - 21/09/2010 03:28:28 PM 1153 Views
Could somebody post a link to where they got it? I want to go to a site where I can download now *NM* - 21/09/2010 05:39:13 AM 1061 Views
I posted some links here - 21/09/2010 06:04:38 AM 1739 Views
My quick summary - 21/09/2010 06:02:41 AM 2510 Views
Whoa, whoa, whoa. - 23/09/2010 02:59:37 AM 1587 Views
It's good, but... Perrin. Ugh. - 21/09/2010 07:37:43 AM 1922 Views
Awesome! - 21/09/2010 09:00:45 AM 1681 Views
Regarding Graendal - 21/09/2010 10:12:42 AM 2184 Views
Some things... - 21/09/2010 01:18:10 PM 1754 Views
I'm glad. Being right is a good feeling - 21/09/2010 04:12:08 PM 1698 Views
a very weak angreal - 21/09/2010 04:55:15 PM 1710 Views
Even a weak angreal - 21/09/2010 05:47:26 PM 1647 Views
The Angreal Elayne mentions made her 2x as strong as Nynaeve - 21/09/2010 06:04:21 PM 1524 Views
The laughter in Perrin's Dream - 21/09/2010 02:24:14 PM 1772 Views
Probably Slayer - 21/09/2010 04:29:41 PM 1651 Views
Re: Probably Slayer - 21/09/2010 04:39:36 PM 1452 Views
Audio Book - 21/09/2010 06:39:54 PM 1588 Views
Not even Ishamael could shield another male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai at the same time... - 21/09/2010 06:46:42 PM 1795 Views
It's different (I think?) but I'm certainly no expert and I'm sure someone else will reply - 21/09/2010 06:57:18 PM 1697 Views
OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not - 21/09/2010 07:00:23 PM 1514 Views
Re: OK, I haven't read the scene, so I don't know if Arangar was holding saidin at the time or not. - 21/09/2010 07:11:42 PM 1623 Views
Thanks. Was Arangar channeling at the time? - 21/09/2010 07:13:53 PM 1606 Views
I think so, yes. - 21/09/2010 07:15:44 PM 1546 Views
I don't think so actually - 21/09/2010 07:57:42 PM 1638 Views
I don't think Aran'gar was channeling - 21/09/2010 11:00:22 PM 1595 Views
I don't think she even closed her Gateway. It think it was BF'd *NM* - 21/09/2010 11:52:01 PM 921 Views
no she wasn't *NM* - 21/09/2010 10:25:13 PM 1035 Views
nope, no power - 23/09/2010 03:05:30 AM 1472 Views
So here's what happens... - 21/09/2010 07:15:03 PM 1981 Views
Thanks. A few comments... - 21/09/2010 07:27:33 PM 1474 Views
I don't rule out the angreal... - 21/09/2010 07:32:40 PM 1510 Views
Elayne's weakest angreal doubles her strength. Graendal x2 can easily shield Cyndane+Moggy, so... - 21/09/2010 07:35:06 PM 1639 Views
Graendal's seemed much weaker... - 21/09/2010 07:52:20 PM 1509 Views
Elayne also called the x2 turtle angreal "weak"... - 21/09/2010 08:00:01 PM 1512 Views
and we know it wasn't enough to overwhlem Verin's circle - 21/09/2010 08:02:13 PM 1357 Views
I disasgree. There is no evidence that Aran'gar was holding saidin at the time - 21/09/2010 07:42:23 PM 1451 Views
Then why did she gasp at the shield? She couldn't have known what Graendal was weaving. - 21/09/2010 07:52:49 PM 1486 Views
because she was surprised that Graendal would put a shield on her in the first place - 21/09/2010 07:58:45 PM 1500 Views
How did she know there was a shield? - 21/09/2010 09:16:59 PM 1459 Views
Fact: Graendal cannot shield a male Forsaken and an Aes Sedai if they are holding the Source... - 21/09/2010 09:28:17 PM 1458 Views
Who said "they"? - 21/09/2010 09:55:28 PM 1431 Views
I really don't think you have to be holding the source to know you've been shielded - 21/09/2010 10:29:20 PM 1398 Views
Provide evidence? - 21/09/2010 10:36:36 PM 1456 Views
Thanks, but like I said, they were both wrapped in air. That's enough for Aran'gar to wonder - 21/09/2010 10:44:17 PM 1368 Views
They gasped before Graendal wove Air... - 21/09/2010 11:13:48 PM 1433 Views
Alright, you win *NM* - 22/09/2010 02:51:26 AM 969 Views
*NM* - 22/09/2010 03:06:22 AM 834 Views
Siuan was distracted by a number of other things going on, not to mention how suspect - 22/09/2010 02:43:36 PM 1350 Views
And Aran'gar was fully focussed on Graendal? - 22/09/2010 03:02:16 PM 1584 Views
More so than Siuan was on Elaida when they were shielded. - 22/09/2010 03:33:15 PM 2365 Views
So? - 22/09/2010 03:48:11 PM 1292 Views
It doesn't matter. There are more Shieldings that go unnoticed when not holding the Source - 22/09/2010 03:55:48 PM 1397 Views
Nice catches! - 22/09/2010 04:06:52 PM 1493 Views
we don't know that - 22/09/2010 02:35:50 PM 1429 Views
Huh? - 22/09/2010 03:03:52 PM 1375 Views
Give over, Darius... there's plenty of evidence... - 22/09/2010 03:45:11 PM 1423 Views
Give over what? There is no hard evidence that Aran'gar wouldn't notice a shield put on her - 22/09/2010 05:00:11 PM 1330 Views
What rot... (also, Egwene and Rand) - 22/09/2010 05:21:08 PM 1439 Views
take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. - 22/09/2010 05:38:21 PM 1415 Views
Re: take a pill Fionwe ... no need to go batshit on me for having an opinion. - 22/09/2010 05:45:05 PM 1534 Views
if it was JUST one shield ... but she's shielding an AS and weaving a Gateway too! - 22/09/2010 05:48:52 PM 3456 Views
Well... - 22/09/2010 07:00:26 PM 1471 Views
She says... - 22/09/2010 07:04:32 PM 1466 Views
no one is arguing that - 22/09/2010 07:09:17 PM 1414 Views
Er... - 22/09/2010 07:19:09 PM 1367 Views
I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded - 22/09/2010 07:20:48 PM 2193 Views
Re: I'm contending that it's possible Aran'gar snesed she'd been shielded - 22/09/2010 07:26:52 PM 2158 Views
Again, I just find that option completely unlikely since Graendals angreal isn't all that strong - 22/09/2010 07:39:02 PM 1421 Views
You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. - 23/09/2010 01:53:25 AM 1508 Views
Re: You've made a long list of channelers "incompetant" and "untrained". Enough. - 23/09/2010 03:42:31 PM 1407 Views
- 23/09/2010 03:54:02 PM 1410 Views
Re: . The evidence is that no channeled is that strong! - 23/09/2010 04:04:02 PM 1532 Views
Really? - 23/09/2010 06:11:00 PM 1489 Views
Re: Really? - 23/09/2010 09:56:09 PM 1362 Views
That's my point *NM* - 24/09/2010 12:20:45 AM 968 Views
Re: She says... - 22/09/2010 07:12:48 PM 1416 Views
Exactly. - 23/09/2010 01:54:05 AM 1397 Views
The way it reads she is holding open a Gateway, then slams shields on both - 22/09/2010 07:08:17 PM 1390 Views
Continue being irrational then... - 22/09/2010 05:46:19 PM 1490 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... - 22/09/2010 05:53:05 PM 1351 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... - 22/09/2010 07:03:02 PM 1371 Views
Nope - 22/09/2010 07:19:30 PM 1270 Views
Re: Nope - 23/09/2010 02:06:35 AM 1422 Views
Toveine! Now THAT is a good catch, fionwe! - 23/09/2010 07:57:05 AM 1533 Views
Sidious pointed it out, actually. But thanks! - 23/09/2010 03:55:29 PM 1411 Views
And you ignore all the evidence in the series that definitively makes it impossible for Graendal to - 23/09/2010 03:57:49 PM 1302 Views
Well... - 23/09/2010 04:31:27 PM 1487 Views
According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal - 24/09/2010 11:18:30 PM 1615 Views
Re: According to Fionwe she isn't using the angreal - 25/09/2010 09:38:41 AM 1458 Views
Re: Continue being irrational then... - 24/09/2010 03:20:49 AM 1579 Views
Oh come on.. be real - 22/09/2010 05:39:51 PM 1381 Views
see that's an argument that makes more sense to me - 22/09/2010 05:47:17 PM 1461 Views
Re: How did she know there was a shield? - 24/09/2010 04:42:25 AM 1404 Views
You'[re missing the part about the bonds of air as well - 21/09/2010 11:06:04 PM 1402 Views
No. The sequence was shield-gasp-tie off shield-wrap in Air. *NM* - 21/09/2010 11:14:41 PM 1012 Views
We have seen people holding the source caught off guard by a shield *NM* - 22/09/2010 12:10:48 AM 964 Views
Well, exactly! - 22/09/2010 02:01:12 AM 1459 Views
What I think happened - 22/09/2010 09:19:57 AM 1429 Views
It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... - 22/09/2010 10:06:47 AM 1380 Views
Re: It's not the male/female issue. It's a Forsaken vs Forsaken issue... - 22/09/2010 01:31:52 PM 1463 Views
Fair point. - 22/09/2010 02:07:05 PM 1449 Views
I think it also bears mentioning that ... - 22/09/2010 04:17:17 PM 1461 Views
Graendal knew Aran'gar was distracted - 23/09/2010 07:10:52 AM 1370 Views
About shielding a channeler holding the Source... - 22/09/2010 05:51:34 PM 2478 Views
Re: About shielding a channeler holding the Source... - 22/09/2010 07:04:37 PM 2917 Views
The angreal makes this an unnecessary debate... - 22/09/2010 07:09:20 PM 1372 Views
she never shielded them - 22/09/2010 07:22:29 PM 1372 Views
True...But it made her strong enough to easily overcome both... - 22/09/2010 07:28:12 PM 1324 Views
This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned - 22/09/2010 07:51:19 PM 1428 Views
Re: This I can believe ... it's just problematic since the angreal isn't mentioned - 22/09/2010 07:54:18 PM 1381 Views
LMAO... nice! - 22/09/2010 08:24:20 PM 1397 Views
I think we need to place Aran'gar lower too.. - 22/09/2010 07:10:29 PM 1465 Views
A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... - 22/09/2010 07:13:51 PM 1304 Views
I would agree - 22/09/2010 07:22:50 PM 1457 Views
Re: I would agree - 22/09/2010 07:25:46 PM 1319 Views
Re: A lot of unsubstantiated assumptions there... - 23/09/2010 03:03:26 AM 1389 Views
Mostly agree - 22/09/2010 07:23:53 PM 1375 Views
Re: Mostly agree - 22/09/2010 07:28:42 PM 1337 Views
I am starting to believe that RJ didn't think quite so literally - 22/09/2010 08:07:45 PM 1393 Views
Not sure if you agreed with this before, but I reached this point awhile ago bwahaha - 22/09/2010 08:53:42 PM 1421 Views
I've been on this side for a good long while - 22/09/2010 09:40:43 PM 1519 Views
*NM* - 28/09/2010 11:54:54 PM 923 Views
Well there is one thing to consider about this - 21/09/2010 07:32:44 PM 1642 Views
So there are 6 Forsaken left. - 21/09/2010 10:23:22 PM 1679 Views
For the record - 21/09/2010 10:53:16 PM 1570 Views
She opened two Gateways, IIRC - 21/09/2010 11:58:29 PM 1458 Views
Re: She opened two Gateways, IIRC - 22/09/2010 02:21:47 AM 1490 Views
Wait...so NO ONE has wanted to discuss the Sapphic scene at Graendal's place? - 22/09/2010 03:48:36 AM 1623 Views
yes, totally Lesbian. *NM* - 22/09/2010 03:04:16 PM 969 Views
No, the other L word. "LesbiAHNS?" *NM* - 22/09/2010 04:18:55 PM 1024 Views
Yes, it was totally lesbian. - 22/09/2010 07:09:19 PM 1425 Views
No, not at all. Aran'gar is still a dude at heart. I think. *NM* - 22/09/2010 08:18:55 PM 990 Views
I tend to agree - 23/09/2010 05:42:52 PM 1432 Views
Lady parts + Lady parts = Lesbian sex - 24/09/2010 11:24:36 PM 2046 Views
Yes, but its still a little off - 25/09/2010 09:40:16 AM 1480 Views
Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose - 25/09/2010 04:41:33 PM 1627 Views
Re: Transgender is a little convoluted I suppose - 25/09/2010 05:25:10 PM 1532 Views
What does Graendal think of Rand? - 22/09/2010 02:00:28 PM 1601 Views
She was really surprised and scared. - 22/09/2010 02:11:28 PM 1561 Views
I take it you haven't read the Prologue. - 22/09/2010 02:16:49 PM 1443 Views
Quite a bit... - 22/09/2010 02:31:14 PM 1604 Views
Agreed, she's been worrying about him since the begining - 22/09/2010 03:18:48 PM 1637 Views
Thanks for the answers *NM* - 22/09/2010 05:46:05 PM 930 Views
Second best prologue ever... - 22/09/2010 06:24:44 PM 1828 Views
It's my favorite ever. Only one dark spot tarnished it. - 22/09/2010 07:18:12 PM 1473 Views
Yeah, tEotW is the best... - 22/09/2010 08:22:12 PM 1503 Views
Aran'gar is a tool - 22/09/2010 07:31:36 PM 1639 Views
Yes. s/He was. - 22/09/2010 08:59:16 PM 1474 Views
Shadow invading Kandor and Lan riding trough it. CONNECTION? - 22/09/2010 08:36:05 PM 1634 Views
- 23/09/2010 04:47:11 PM 1539 Views
Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO - 23/09/2010 05:45:41 PM 1564 Views
Re: Nice prologue, but not superb, IMO - 23/09/2010 09:54:33 PM 1531 Views
I believe that Sanderson concocted the entire Graendal/Rand/Balefire part - 23/09/2010 10:24:46 PM 2178 Views
I had a similar thought, but... - 23/09/2010 10:40:58 PM 1485 Views
Probably not Sanderson - 23/09/2010 11:11:54 PM 1520 Views
No way - 24/09/2010 07:14:35 AM 1447 Views
I agree. *NM* - 25/09/2010 09:42:46 AM 976 Views
A few nits - 12/10/2010 10:21:27 AM 1447 Views
Canadian Download site - 29/09/2010 12:05:12 AM 1944 Views

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