hmmm.... I'll probably kick myself for responding to this 
darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 05/09/2010 04:31:34 PM
darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 05/09/2010 04:31:34 PM
That is entirely true, even if I don't accept that his offer to bond Asha'man and possible negligence of the Black Tower makes him responsible for the theoretical fates of the Aes Sedai. Particularly relative to Egwene, whose determination to keep Tower secrets from Rand led to his confusion about the rebellion and assumptions of allies among the Tower embassy, or aid from the Salidar embassy, only to meet hostility and aggression from both sides. Egwene's similarly childish identification with the Aes Sedai and wish to have her cake and eat it too (maintenance of Aes Sedai stature and dignity, and at the same time total rejection of Elaida by Rand), and her transparent ploys undermined her cautions to Rand. He couldn't really rely on the judgement of someone so ambivalent, and paid for it with his captivity and mistreatment.
Really, short of the deaths of every sister who took up Rand's offer, anyone speaking for the White Tower has little room to talk to Rand about aberant membership causing the other side pain. What is more, Egwene indicates her understanding of Rand's lack of culpability in the bonding, yet still intends to hold that against him. Any genuine responsibility he might have for the circumstances of the Tower's displeasure is undercut by the fact that it would have done him no good, and he was bound to face the Amyrlin's anger whether he deserves it or not.
Really, short of the deaths of every sister who took up Rand's offer, anyone speaking for the White Tower has little room to talk to Rand about aberant membership causing the other side pain. What is more, Egwene indicates her understanding of Rand's lack of culpability in the bonding, yet still intends to hold that against him. Any genuine responsibility he might have for the circumstances of the Tower's displeasure is undercut by the fact that it would have done him no good, and he was bound to face the Amyrlin's anger whether he deserves it or not.
For the record I don't disagree with what you are saying regarding Rand and Logain ... I think you and DomA are both correct in your evaluations of their rivalry.
I do think you have it wrong about Egwene though. It wasn't her determination to keep Tower secrets that lead Rand to believe he had support in Salidar. It was quite the opposite in fact. It was her (not to mention Nynaeve and Elayne) rather naive assumption that just because these women had rebelled against Elaida that they would support Rand. Egwene was (rightfully) cautious of putting Salidar and Rand face to face from the beginning, but she was very straight forward in telling him that Elaida and Alviarin were up to no good. Long before she went to join Salidar she warned Rand about that letter and she went straight to him, despite the personal danger, to try and help him best handle Coiren and Company. She even tried to play the Wise One game of reverse psychology (badly I might add) on Rand to get him to keep Coiren at arms length. The only secret she kept from him was the name Salidar (she didn't even know where it was), and that was because Elayne and Nynaeve asked her too.
I'm curious to know what "Tower secrets" you are referring to in this post.
As for the rest, I agree with DomA on Rand's culpability, or at least the irresponsibility of Rand in sending Egwene's AS to Taim ... he knows damn well that there is something wrong there and has had to warn Taim on any number of occasions to leave AS alone when Taim wanted to kill them.
I also agree, however, that Rand had no reason to make the offer to begin with. Your point on the fate of the 47 women bonded to Logain and his AM is valid to me. They are essentially prisoners of war and quite honestly got off easy given that they were under orders to break their own laws and kill/gentle men on the spot ... as Logain knew from Toveine's papers.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
Will Rand have cause to be mad at Egwene if...
- 01/09/2010 02:24:24 AM
1515 Views
Well...
- 01/09/2010 04:05:02 AM
969 Views
Blaming Rand for Aes Sedai misfortunes is absurd
- 01/09/2010 08:19:27 AM
933 Views
Re: Blaming Rand for Aes Sedai misfortunes is absurd
- 01/09/2010 02:16:06 PM
913 Views
What proof do you have that Logain is good? Or proof that Taim is bad, that Rand would know?
- 01/09/2010 06:50:19 PM
911 Views
Absolutely none, which is the point.
- 02/09/2010 12:14:53 AM
743 Views
Of course! Rumors from a semi-retired terrorist Rand has never spoken to before = Verin's book.
- 04/09/2010 03:04:19 AM
850 Views
Re: What proof do you have that Logain is good? Or proof that Taim is bad, that Rand would know?
- 02/09/2010 08:51:15 PM
619 Views
That's EXACTLY why Egwene would do it.
- 01/09/2010 06:45:25 PM
768 Views
Now, now. I'm trying to play nice and stipulate good intentions and a sense of justice on her part.
- 01/09/2010 06:51:04 PM
695 Views
Re: Blaming Rand for Aes Sedai misfortunes is absurd
- 03/09/2010 02:39:38 AM
701 Views
There's just as much evidence for the same sort of motivation for Logain
- 04/09/2010 03:50:22 AM
690 Views
hmmm.... I'll probably kick myself for responding to this
- 05/09/2010 04:31:34 PM
684 Views
- 05/09/2010 04:31:34 PM
684 Views