Active Users:1141 Time:23/11/2024 03:12:09 AM
Likely from Vandene DomA Send a noteboard - 21/08/2010 05:58:31 PM
Vandene had a long conversation with Moiraine, and half-puzzled out many things that were happening (Forsaken loose, the Dragon being reborn etc.).

We were not privy to the conversation that they had after the Shadow nearly killed both of them. I imagine Vandene suddenly had a few pointy questions, and Moiraine didn't really have a choice to trust her and open up, at least a bit. Moiraine had put Vandene's life at risk by coming to her and not telling her about the potential danger she was in, after all. Later on, we saw Vandene finally able to convince Adeleas to come out of retirement (she spoke to Moiraine of the LB being imminent and wanting to drag her sister back to the Tower).

I'm pretty sure it's then that Vandene decided to teach Moiraine balefire, as it's one of two possible Moiraine episodes that fits, and Jordan liked to hide answers like that in plain sight and leave us to puzzle it out. (The other possibility is that Verin knew it and taught it to Moiraine in Falme... but it borders a betrayal of the DO a little too much). In any case, we have a timeline, based on Moiraine's answer to Perrin, confirmed by her failure to deal with Aginor and Belthamel. She didn't have balefire in EOTW, and in TDR she said she had become "a lot more dangerous".

I don't think that weave was ever "lost". I think above a certain rank in the Green Ajah hierarchy, the sisters are taught balefire to preserve knowledge of the weave. The Green Ajah might need all the destructive weaves still known one day, for the last battle - even that one. It's forbidden by Tower Law, so the Greens keep this secret, and it's very unlikely all but a handful of old Greens are passed this knowledge, and whenever one of them dies or retire, a new "guardian" is added, so knowledge of these weaves don't vanish. It sounds like the sort of weave the Captain-General would trust only the most level-headed sisters with - sisters like Vandene, and Cadsuane (who recognized balefire on sight when she saw it...) etc. Greens that will never use it - and that they won't reveal to others they have before the LB, and then only if it's necessary to defeat the Shadow. Primarly, they're just repositories of dangerous and nasty knowledge the Green Ajah can neither afford to use nor to lose, whatever the other Ajahs think. My guess is that most of the Green Ajah's "secret weaves" is nasty stuff like that, balefire most likely the worst and most restricted one of the lot, while other deadly weaves are probably taught upon gaining the shawl. Cadsuane might even be an exception in both knowing the weave and having the strength to make it work without an angreal. Vandene might have taught it to Moiraine the way Sorilea gave Travelling to Cadsuane.

As we saw in the Two Rivers and at the Cleansing, the Green Ajah is arrogant, remote and a bit aloof, but when faced with the Shadow, even a fairly young sister like Alanna (and her warder) has tricks up her sleeve: knowledge of strategies and tactics, weaves two sisters can reasonnably use without exhausting themselves completely, knowledge of weaponry etc. One even wonders how much theorical knowledge of things like artillery the Green Ajah/WT still possess from books and doesn't share to non-AS as it would make warfare more dangerous as well as reduce the superiority of the WT over the nations (and even threaten their policy of non-involvement.)

Reply to message
How were all these amazing weaves 'lost' ? - 20/08/2010 04:33:43 AM 1627 Views
Ishamael may have had a hand in that... - 20/08/2010 04:45:39 AM 1000 Views
Agreed. - 20/08/2010 10:01:37 AM 900 Views
Lost Weaves - 20/08/2010 01:43:25 PM 967 Views
Re: Lost Weaves *NM* - 20/08/2010 01:45:30 PM 485 Views
Not logical - 20/08/2010 01:50:32 PM 963 Views
Re: Not logical - 20/08/2010 03:22:04 PM 796 Views
All I'm saying, is that Travelling would STILL be a very usefull survival tool during the Breaking.. - 20/08/2010 03:44:59 PM 921 Views
All good points also. - 20/08/2010 03:48:49 PM 1263 Views
Re: Not logical - 20/08/2010 03:45:55 PM 754 Views
Re: Not logical - 21/08/2010 04:20:41 AM 680 Views
you may have hit onto something with your last statement - 21/08/2010 05:06:59 PM 774 Views
Re: you may have hit onto something with your last statement - 23/08/2010 05:09:06 PM 689 Views
I don't think that creating cuendillar and 'angreals was common knowledge. - 20/08/2010 05:06:20 PM 787 Views
The need to learn a location to travel - 20/08/2010 05:58:48 PM 730 Views
They could use Rand's trick from TGS. - 21/08/2010 01:06:33 AM 691 Views
My only theory... - 20/08/2010 06:02:14 PM 733 Views
The Strongest Died seems like a pretty valid theory to me... - 20/08/2010 06:14:29 PM 889 Views
Maybe Aes Sedai treated weaves like Intellectual Property - 20/08/2010 09:49:12 PM 718 Views
Trademark? Patent? Or Copyright? =P *NM* - 20/08/2010 10:19:36 PM 327 Views
It doesn't have to be logical... - 20/08/2010 11:50:17 PM 860 Views
Idea? - 21/08/2010 12:47:52 AM 648 Views
But they weren't too weak - 21/08/2010 02:48:43 AM 725 Views
That's because most of the major people in WoT are powerful channelers. - 21/08/2010 04:13:04 AM 724 Views
How can you "write a weave down"? - 21/08/2010 04:54:28 PM 770 Views
How did Moiraine learn balefire then? *NM* - 21/08/2010 05:04:27 PM 1009 Views
figured it out on her own, don't forget that Nyn used it too against the Fades in TDR. *NM* - 21/08/2010 05:12:15 PM 361 Views
That's a stretch - Moiraine never demonstrated any creative talent with the OP... - 21/08/2010 06:15:01 PM 710 Views
OK, I'll buy Vandene teaching it, but not learning it from a written description *NM* - 21/08/2010 06:35:46 PM 365 Views
I myself can't buy Vandene teaching that weave to any Sister - 24/08/2010 04:06:26 PM 742 Views
Me neither... - 24/08/2010 05:50:24 PM 783 Views
Mispost.. *NM* - 25/08/2010 02:51:02 PM 426 Views
I disagree - Moiraine's wilder tricks show that she is quite creative with the OP - 24/08/2010 03:31:06 PM 733 Views
Re: I disagree - Moiraine's wilder tricks show that she is quite creative with the OP - 24/08/2010 05:32:11 PM 1060 Views
But... - 24/08/2010 06:40:39 PM 700 Views
When did she use that? *NM* - 25/08/2010 09:34:31 AM 346 Views
We know of her trick with stones and light from 'New Spring' IIRC - 25/08/2010 02:40:26 PM 865 Views
Elayne did use Moiraine's coin trick. - 25/08/2010 06:09:27 PM 828 Views
Likely from Vandene - 21/08/2010 05:58:31 PM 1068 Views
Something no one else is mentioning... that I saw... - 21/08/2010 07:15:49 PM 827 Views
one thing i've noticed - 23/08/2010 06:37:48 PM 738 Views
Simple: none were necessary for survival in Stone Age barbarism. - 23/08/2010 09:12:40 PM 726 Views

Reply to Message