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sigh ... always so aggressive ... why you gotta hate darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 11/08/2010 03:23:31 AM
Again,

I suggest you reread that passage, what Rand says is that Graendal is so much smarter than him and that he has no way of matching her, and that he needs to get some allies who are more clever than her (to say nothing of that absurd idea about allying with Graendal, which she surely wouldn't buy after Sammael tried that trick), there is nothing that indicates that Rand is going to balefire her palace in the next few minutes (or days, or even weeks), everything in that conversation suggests Rand is stumped and is unable to find an answer to dealing with Graendal.


Incidentally, in order for Graendal to learn this, she would have to Compel Ramshalan. Given that you claim that she only thought of the channeling pawn scheme after getting information from Ramshalan, why would she have someone else Compel him in the first place? Again, it is impossible.

Either Graendal had someone else Compel Ramshalan from the moment he arrived, which would make anything she learned from him irrelevant, or she did Compel him, and your entire argument is moot.


All she had to do was hold a compulsion on him while interrogating him then release it and have someone else do the "bigger" job if she so chose. This is not a difficult concept she did much the same to Moghedien and Cyndane in WH.


Note what she did when threatened in POD... seems pretty standard

POD
New Alliances

She had spun the nets strong, for anger’s sake, nearly strong enough to do harm, and the women stood staring at her adoringly, eyes wide and mouths hanging open in adulation, intoxicated with worship. They were hers to command, now. If she told them to cut their own throats, they would. Suddenly Graendal realized that Moghedien was no longer embracing the Source. This much Compulsion might have shocked her into letting go. The servants by the door had not moved, of course.

"Now," she said a touch breathlessly, "you will answer my questions." She had a number, including who was this Moridin fellow, if there was such a man, and where had Cyndane come from, but one piqued her more than the rest. "What did you hope to gain by this, Moghedien? I may decide to knot those webs on you. You can pay for your game by serving me."

note that there is no permanent damage until she knots the webs, easy to see that she would have done something similar to Ramshalan and when she realized what was up had someone else finish the job while she packed up and ran.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 11/08/2010 at 03:43:00 AM
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What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? Sidious - 13/07/2010 09:00:05 AM 1970 Views
Too convulted to make any sense... Etzel - 13/07/2010 09:22:26 AM 928 Views
Too convulted...... Jeordam - 14/07/2010 07:26:26 PM 1058 Views
The logic is rather... Etzel - 15/07/2010 05:09:30 PM 827 Views
What is the reason Delana is with Graendal? Artsapat - 13/07/2010 09:31:36 AM 1003 Views
Indeed... Etzel - 13/07/2010 10:06:32 AM 917 Views
Re: Indeed... Sidious - 13/07/2010 10:10:43 AM 954 Views
That is wrong Etzel - 13/07/2010 10:19:32 AM 788 Views
Re: That is wrong Sidious - 13/07/2010 10:29:16 AM 878 Views
It's not at all... Etzel - 13/07/2010 10:35:49 AM 783 Views
Plus... Etzel - 13/07/2010 12:18:12 PM 724 Views
I agree with part and disagree with part. Logain - 14/07/2010 06:39:36 PM 787 Views
exactly darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 06:43:14 PM 804 Views
Does the Compulsion fit Graendal? Lohikaarme - 13/07/2010 03:40:36 PM 854 Views
sorry but no dacole - 13/07/2010 09:49:13 AM 917 Views
Exactly Etzel - 13/07/2010 10:14:06 AM 803 Views
Yeah dacole provided powerful evidence *NM* Sidious - 13/07/2010 10:25:13 AM 446 Views
Actually... Etzel - 13/07/2010 10:30:24 AM 831 Views
Or, as with Moghedien. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 13/07/2010 02:35:44 PM 973 Views
It makes perfect sense. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 13/07/2010 02:33:09 PM 834 Views
I won't be 100% sure she's dead until we get a solid "she's toast" from either the text darius_sedai - 13/07/2010 04:21:18 PM 842 Views
This is actually the first thing that I thought of in that scene *NM* darius_sedai - 13/07/2010 04:08:48 PM 575 Views
Until I have absolute proof to the contrary.(Confirmation by Harriot or BS) krassos - 13/07/2010 04:20:49 PM 753 Views
If Graendal didn't know Rand would use balefire, why would she have Delana do the Compulsion? beetnemesis - 13/07/2010 04:57:10 PM 1009 Views
Yes, Graendal completely outsmarted Rand. Fanatic-Templar - 13/07/2010 05:56:30 PM 901 Views
I just think it's funny that people make fun of such a basic plan as convoluted. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 13/07/2010 06:33:44 PM 907 Views
Indeed... imagine how a truly complex plan would confound them Sidious - 13/07/2010 08:41:54 PM 816 Views
Re: Indeed... imagine how a truly complex plan would confound them Underwood - 13/07/2010 09:09:09 PM 882 Views
You draw too much attention to yourself, Mr Underwood *NM* Sidious - 14/07/2010 05:13:42 AM 548 Views
Ha, nice! *NM* Underwood - 14/07/2010 04:05:00 PM 442 Views
What are you talking about? I was agreeing with you, it's absurdly simple. Fanatic-Templar - 13/07/2010 09:27:22 PM 883 Views
Huh Sidious - 14/07/2010 05:22:51 AM 855 Views
Why did the lair explode? Fanatic-Templar - 14/07/2010 06:17:32 AM 800 Views
*NM* Skeeve the Great - 14/07/2010 01:58:17 PM 601 Views
While I generally agree with you...you missed an important detail. Mik - 14/07/2010 02:06:31 PM 991 Views
What did Rand tell Ramshalan... Fanatic-Templar - 14/07/2010 04:29:04 PM 707 Views
Re: What did Rand tell Ramshalan... darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 04:52:11 PM 809 Views
... Fanatic-Templar - 14/07/2010 09:22:21 PM 995 Views
he doesn't have to read Rands mind darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 09:41:59 PM 751 Views
Provide a quote. Fanatic-Templar - 15/07/2010 04:10:06 AM 889 Views
read the chapter darius_sedai - 10/08/2010 09:22:02 PM 714 Views
Right, that's why I asked. Because I know you can't. Fanatic-Templar - 10/08/2010 10:00:14 PM 839 Views
sigh ... always so aggressive ... why you gotta hate darius_sedai - 11/08/2010 03:23:31 AM 924 Views
Was that what I asked for? Fanatic-Templar - 11/08/2010 04:05:41 AM 684 Views
sorry misunderstood what you were looking for darius_sedai - 11/08/2010 04:50:17 PM 708 Views
Oh if that's what you want darius_sedai - 11/08/2010 04:45:19 PM 857 Views
Yes, he pretty much says out loud that he can't just wipe out her fortress. Fanatic-Templar - 11/08/2010 06:57:39 PM 764 Views
Re: Yes, he pretty much says out loud that he can't just wipe out her fortress. darius_sedai - 11/08/2010 09:20:10 PM 761 Views
why does it have to be a well thought out plan? darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 04:14:17 PM 723 Views
She would have to teach her pawn Compulsion. Fanatic-Templar - 14/07/2010 04:30:12 PM 696 Views
No she'd only have to show Delana a weave to duplicate darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 04:48:24 PM 804 Views
Nonsense. Fanatic-Templar - 14/07/2010 09:30:01 PM 847 Views
yet Sorilea, can duplicate Cadsuane's weaves after one quick glance darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 09:52:01 PM 852 Views
Which ones? Fanatic-Templar - 15/07/2010 04:14:23 AM 743 Views
Re: Which ones? Sidious - 15/07/2010 05:25:28 AM 839 Views
Well. Fanatic-Templar - 15/07/2010 06:53:29 AM 714 Views
Actually I think it's one of those things that make AS so stupid darius_sedai - 10/08/2010 09:36:43 PM 810 Views
the Sorilea moment is when they first meet Semirhage darius_sedai - 10/08/2010 09:32:26 PM 877 Views
Thanks for the quote. Fanatic-Templar - 10/08/2010 10:02:36 PM 893 Views
Re: I just think it's funny that people make fun of such a basic plan as convoluted. saidarisnowtainted - 14/07/2010 05:40:11 PM 730 Views
She's so smart, she knows Rand will bring along Nynaeve to check Delana's Compulsion BlackAdder - 13/07/2010 08:32:19 PM 743 Views
we've seen any number of times that a Channeler can make an exact copy of weaves darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 04:10:41 PM 846 Views
Ramshalan didn't know the plan as you claim Skeeve the Great - 14/07/2010 04:16:29 PM 667 Views
he knew enough to alert Graendal to the danger darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 04:50:26 PM 899 Views
No. Don't think so. Tom - 13/07/2010 08:35:34 PM 718 Views
I so desperately want you to be right. Seriana Sedai - 14/07/2010 06:30:16 AM 885 Views
Graendal being alive would make more of a statement... fionwe1987 - 14/07/2010 06:53:48 AM 806 Views
Re: Graendal being alive would make more of a statement... Fanatic-Templar - 14/07/2010 07:10:49 AM 867 Views
Re: Graendal being alive would make more of a statement... Seriana Sedai - 15/07/2010 10:50:05 PM 776 Views
Yip Sidious - 14/07/2010 04:33:03 PM 781 Views
Lame. eucatastrophe - 14/07/2010 10:44:47 AM 733 Views
Not really darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 04:15:38 PM 676 Views
she's dead, get over it *NM* Yunalesca - 14/07/2010 01:12:15 PM 487 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? saidarisnowtainted - 14/07/2010 05:44:38 PM 728 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? RugbyPlayingAshaman - 14/07/2010 07:21:29 PM 818 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? saidarisnowtainted - 10/08/2010 09:12:17 PM 930 Views
Sounds about right. Wonder if he intends to try and get Callandor? *NM* Lord Haart - 13/08/2010 07:41:47 AM 275 Views
*shrug* Seems a bit complex to me... Jeordam - 14/07/2010 07:17:49 PM 1016 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? Underwood - 15/07/2010 04:38:09 PM 834 Views
Honestly, if she's still alive, how is she going to die? Gher - 16/07/2010 05:49:06 AM 656 Views
Ahh, just remembered that some people think some Forsaken will survive Tarmon Gai'don. Still... *NM* Gher - 16/07/2010 05:51:41 AM 385 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? scooter - 10/11/2010 04:09:41 AM 736 Views
Why? *Towers of Midnight spoilers* Fanatic-Templar - 10/11/2010 04:41:11 AM 702 Views
Because he was right, that's why. Terez - 11/11/2010 03:39:39 AM 718 Views
Not by my reckoning. *Still contains ToM spoilers* Fanatic-Templar - 11/11/2010 04:22:59 AM 650 Views
No one ever gets every detail right - it's impossible Terez - 11/11/2010 06:06:26 AM 941 Views
Yes, but I don't think this was a detail. *Still ToM spoilers.* Fanatic-Templar - 11/11/2010 06:31:40 AM 804 Views
Re: Why? *Towers of Midnight spoilers* scooter - 11/11/2010 04:12:38 AM 810 Views
Please try to maintain some decorum. *Also ToM spoilers* Fanatic-Templar - 11/11/2010 04:45:08 AM 758 Views
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