This post was inspired by the recent discussions.
RJ answered once the following Q&A:
I think it is interesting that the Lightside could somehow temporarily borrow a soul from the supply of (apparently human) souls that await rebirth. We know that the DO can't reach this supply, thus it is surprising that humans can access it in some way.
It would say this also indicates that constructs need a soul to really act in an intelligent way. In another Q&A RJ also pointed out that only Gray Men (who are explicitely called "Soulless" ) can truly "act" without a soul:
Contrary to Nym, Trollocs are apparently artifical constructs made by twisting/corrupting the souls of living humans with the TP and fusing those humans & animals:
It's interesting that such a twisted Trolloc soul would be reborn as a Trolloc, if one considers that basically the Pattern/Wheel decides, which souls are spun out and when. It would imply that the Wheel/Pattern sometimes "wants" Trollocs to be reborn (though e.g. the Forsaken are also reborn of course). It also indicates that a former human soul, which is corrupted like the soul of a Trolloc, will always stay a Trolloc soul thereafter. I wonder if this means that if you would e.g. make a Trolloc out of Rand, the Dragon Soul would be lost forever as well.
Besides that, we know that Trollocs can also come into existence by normal breeding:
I wonder if this means then that these Trolloc children normally get the souls of Trollocs, which died once, by the Wheel.
An alternative would be that the DO controls the rebirth of Trollocs, because of their TP corruption. This might also explain, why the DO has access to more Trollocs than the Blight can supply, as was reported during a BS signing:
Finally, we know that constructs can't pass through Gateways:
Maybe the reason is that constructs basically have a borrowed soul and the passage through a Gateway would allow the Pattern for some reason to separate the borrowed soul from the body?
Any other ideas or comments on this topic?
RJ answered once the following Q&A:
Q: How does the idea of souls apply to constructs such as Nym and Trollocs? Could either of them be reborn?
RJ: To whoever put this one forward, this is one of the best questions I've ever gotten! Nym and Trollocs both have souls, and either could be reborn, but since Nym were a pure construct (i.e. each of them was individually made, like hand-crafting) a Nym would not be reborn as a Nym. You might say that a Nym's soul was borrowed temporarily from the supply of souls awaiting rebirth. A Trolloc, however, bears a twisted, or corrupted soul, and would be reborn as a Trolloc. Though frankly, a Trolloc's soul is such a pitiful thing, it hardly seems worth calling a soul.
RJ: To whoever put this one forward, this is one of the best questions I've ever gotten! Nym and Trollocs both have souls, and either could be reborn, but since Nym were a pure construct (i.e. each of them was individually made, like hand-crafting) a Nym would not be reborn as a Nym. You might say that a Nym's soul was borrowed temporarily from the supply of souls awaiting rebirth. A Trolloc, however, bears a twisted, or corrupted soul, and would be reborn as a Trolloc. Though frankly, a Trolloc's soul is such a pitiful thing, it hardly seems worth calling a soul.
I think it is interesting that the Lightside could somehow temporarily borrow a soul from the supply of (apparently human) souls that await rebirth. We know that the DO can't reach this supply, thus it is surprising that humans can access it in some way.
It would say this also indicates that constructs need a soul to really act in an intelligent way. In another Q&A RJ also pointed out that only Gray Men (who are explicitely called "Soulless" ) can truly "act" without a soul:
The concept here, with the exception of the Gray Men: You've seen an Ogier who lost his soul. And in effect there's nobody home anymore. It is a body that lives and breathes, and will move if it is helped along. But it does not, there's nobody home in there. The Gray Men are slightly different. But they also have given up their souls. They've given up their souls in a way. Already, their souls are gone. But it's happened in a way that protects them against this emptiness, as if they're severed from the physical and spiritual side. And the spiritual side is gone, but the physical side remains so there is an intellect in that body, but no soul. And that's why they are Gray Men. Your eyes slip past them, the perfect assassins. You can look right at one and look on, never having realized you saw somebody there.
Contrary to Nym, Trollocs are apparently artifical constructs made by twisting/corrupting the souls of living humans with the TP and fusing those humans & animals:
This [the making of the gholam] was an attempt at copying something that had turned up in Myrddraal, which seem incapable of disobeying one of the Chosen, possibly because of the use of the True Power in creation of the Trollocs, the parent stock of the Myrddraal. Even Aginor, who created the Trollocs, and thus indirectly the Myrddraal, was uncertain about the actual cause.
It's interesting that such a twisted Trolloc soul would be reborn as a Trolloc, if one considers that basically the Pattern/Wheel decides, which souls are spun out and when. It would imply that the Wheel/Pattern sometimes "wants" Trollocs to be reborn (though e.g. the Forsaken are also reborn of course). It also indicates that a former human soul, which is corrupted like the soul of a Trolloc, will always stay a Trolloc soul thereafter. I wonder if this means that if you would e.g. make a Trolloc out of Rand, the Dragon Soul would be lost forever as well.
Besides that, we know that Trollocs can also come into existence by normal breeding:
Q: What are female Trollocs like?
RJ: They are basically breeding machines. They give birth to litters, and are quite fierce in defense of their children.
RJ: They are basically breeding machines. They give birth to litters, and are quite fierce in defense of their children.
I wonder if this means then that these Trolloc children normally get the souls of Trollocs, which died once, by the Wheel.
An alternative would be that the DO controls the rebirth of Trollocs, because of their TP corruption. This might also explain, why the DO has access to more Trollocs than the Blight can supply, as was reported during a BS signing:
Question was how many Trollocs did the Dark One have access to. He stated definitively that there are lots and lots of Trollocs. The Dark One has access to either "orders of magnitudes more" or "an order of magnitude" more Trollocs that can be supported in the Blight (I can't remember whether there was an "s" there. Sorry). He wouldn't comment on how or where, but was very clear that there was going to be a big big Trolloc army.
Finally, we know that constructs can't pass through Gateways:
Q: Why can't Shadowspawn pass through gateways?
RJ: It's because they're artificial constructs. They can't tolerate the passage.
Q: So would a Nym have the same problem?
RJ: Yes.
Q: How about Ogier?
RJ: No. Ogier are not artificial constructs.
RJ: It's because they're artificial constructs. They can't tolerate the passage.
Q: So would a Nym have the same problem?
RJ: Yes.
Q: How about Ogier?
RJ: No. Ogier are not artificial constructs.
Maybe the reason is that constructs basically have a borrowed soul and the passage through a Gateway would allow the Pattern for some reason to separate the borrowed soul from the body?
Any other ideas or comments on this topic?
Some musings on constructs and souls
- 28/07/2010 12:07:06 PM
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I think RJ is inconsistent on the nature of souls and constructs
- 28/07/2010 03:00:19 PM
373 Views
Hmm...
- 29/07/2010 12:58:57 PM
310 Views
The problem is that by saying a soul can be damaged or corrupted like that, it isn't immortal
- 29/07/2010 05:47:04 PM
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