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Re: I think the question is... Datakim Send a noteboard - 27/07/2010 05:59:37 PM

Brandon said LTT was right that the DO is the TP. I asked someone who went to a Stormleader event to ask him that directly (because it had been my theory about the nature of the DO for many books... so I was very interested in getting a confirmation). The quote was in his report. It's most likely in Terez's DB on TL (though maybe not the exact question I got Peter or Ken to ask Brandon)


No need to look for the quote, I do believe you. I just don't see that this necessarily means that the DO has to be completely 100% aware of TP all the time. Basically it is possible that once the DO "separates" parts of himeslf to give to channelers, he temporarily becomes unaware of what happens to those parts of himself. I mean it is _possible_ is it not? Certainly it is also possible that the DO was aware of everything Rand was doing, but the possibility that the DO was ignorant has not yet been disproven.


Yet very unlikely IMO. It would mean their connection to the TS have fused, that they draw from the same connection, and IMO there's absolutely nothing in the books to support that notion,


I don't really see the need for the connections to have fully fused. Hmm. Lets imagine that the connection to OP is like a pipe through which water flows. Both of them still have their unique pipes to the source. Rand&Moridin themselves would be water tanks to which the water from the pipe goes. Now imagine that the balefire link has created a NEW pipe between the two water tanks. So the idea would be that TP went through Moridin-pipe to Moridin-tank, and then the TP flowed through the balefire-pipe to Rand-tank. You see what I mean I am sure. I don't see the need for their OP connections to have fused together, all that is required is somekind of connection between them, and we know that exists. Now I am sure we will eventually find out if that connection can transfer power, but I think it is quite feasible.


You transform Moridin into some sort of well or alternative source for the TP. That's a most bizarre notion.


Why? Sure, Moridin-the-living-TP-angreal is somewhat strange, but that does not make it in any way impossible. Especially since Rand saw Moridins face at the exact time he channeled TP.


Actually you do, or you misunderstand that humans must have the ability to channel to draw the TP. If Rand drew the TP through Moridin's connection, it means Moridin and Rand share their connection to the TS as well, and would be aware whenever the other channels, because it would feel as if they had embrace the Power themselves.


I said "only". I think they are linked so closely now that they are basically touching physically,mentally and also through the power. And remember I argued that that the dizziness that Rand experiences is caused by one or the other using OP, and if true that means that using the power does allow the other to feel it.


No, you brought that one above too, but you are mismembering it. Moridin said nothing about that, it was LTT. That's not Moridin's philosophy, it's most likely a reflect of how AOLers felt about the Creator when their God never seemed to come to their help. It must have been depressing, when the other side's God helped directly. It's no wonder so many lost faith and joined the Shadow. Rand/LTT's faith was rekindled on DM - the Creator leaves us the choice to fight Shai'tan or not, it's up to us, and we've decided Creation is worth saving. The Creator told Rand no different in EOTW: "only the Chosen One can do it, if he choose to". Rand was always to face that choice.


You may be right. However I will mention that while Rand first thinks it was LTT, he then says that LTT was nodding along as though someone ELSE had made the thought. Rand then assumes that it was actually his thought, and wonders how much LTT has affected him that he thinks such things now. But it is quite possible that it was actually Moridins thought. The whole "Creator does not care" would fit well in his ideology aswell I believe.


Yes. After Rand channelled the TP, his mirroring of Moridin started increasing at top speed, until on DM he basically quoted Elan Morin's nihilist philosophy about the Pattern being a prison to make souls suffer.


Yep. But would that not mean that using TP activated the link further. So using power activated the link. And TP uses the same link as OP.


By all evidence, Moridin now spends most of his time at SG, quite incapacitated (he doesn't seem to have Rand's resilience). How often does he channel anyway?


We don't know, but we do know that at the time Rand was already feeling sick from channeling, Moridin was still able to use TP without showing any signs atleast. That is where the idea that maybe only OP causes sickness comes from. It is interesting that Rand himself did NOT get dizzy when he used TP. If the sickness was caused by some conflict between that and the Shadar Logoth wound then should he have not been utterly crippled from channeling it himself?


A case of the above. When Rand embraces saidin, his reaction is very violent and overwhelming. Moridin feels it (as Birgitte would if Elayne was in the same situation), and experienced a strong emotion: fury. When they're connected this way, they see each other.


But what causes the reaction. I still think its OP itself, that OP being a power that naturally connects to others (circles) also tends to activate the link, which causes dizziness and sickness in both.


Another similar case not involving saidin or sickness occured when Moridin was in a fury at a meeting of the Forsaken (when he told them in anger "if you want to kill somebody, kill those two!" and Rand too was in a mood. He suddenly thought angrily that he needed Perrin and Mat but they were off at the Ansaline Gardens.


Oh yes, I cannot deny that they are linked in their thoughts too (I really want a Moridin POV in the next book!), but that does not prevent the possibility that they are ALSO linked through the power. We know channeling OP has other effects. It hinders compulsion, it distorts Min's visions and so on. Why could it not strenghten the balefire-link. The link is always there, but OP use activates it in full causing the "motion-sickness" as Rand feels he is suddenly in two different places/bodies at once.


Demandred meant "since Ishamael re-appeared as Moridin" he had to channel exclusively the TP to get the saa so fast.


Demandred says "since he last saw him". To me that suggests since he last saw Moridin, unless this is the first time Ishy meets Demandred in his new body. It also seems to me that if this had been normal behaviour for Ishy, it would not have been worth mentioning. So why does Demandred seem to think its somehow strange that Moridin has gone totally TP-exclusive.


Moridin already had the saa before the SL incident. Nothing suggests any sudden change of behaviour, and he seemed to have used almost exclusively the TP as Ishamael as well.


He had some saa, but what Demandred thinks is: "so many saa gained so quickly", while the saa are a large stream in Moridins eyes. The point is not that Moridin has saa, but rather that he has much more than he should have according to Demandred.
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foreshadowing of Semirhage's death - 25/07/2010 07:13:48 AM 1578 Views
I don't think that Semirhage was sacrificed - 25/07/2010 08:36:47 AM 790 Views
No, too tired to give reasons... *NM* - 25/07/2010 09:30:46 AM 240 Views
Re: No, too tired to give reasons... *NM* - 26/07/2010 01:19:26 AM 247 Views
I disagree about the TP aspect - 25/07/2010 03:30:37 PM 698 Views
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It's an interesting theory in either direction - 25/07/2010 04:54:31 PM 631 Views
Re: It's an interesting theory in either direction - 26/07/2010 02:17:35 AM 492 Views
You can't expect BS to give away things with 2 books to go. - 26/07/2010 01:48:37 AM 562 Views
Re: You can't expect BS to give away things with 2 books to go. - 26/07/2010 02:24:29 AM 514 Views
Re: I disagree about the TP aspect - 26/07/2010 01:22:30 AM 526 Views
Re: I disagree about the TP aspect - 26/07/2010 02:30:11 AM 503 Views
^^^what Datakim said^^^ - 26/07/2010 06:58:02 PM 522 Views
I don't know if Semirhage was sacrificed or not. Either way the Semirhage quote set up tGS 6 books - 26/07/2010 02:29:59 AM 581 Views
You were right the first time - 26/07/2010 03:02:22 AM 628 Views
I think the question is... - 26/07/2010 08:27:17 AM 544 Views
Re: I think the question is... - 27/07/2010 12:43:44 AM 527 Views
Re: I think the question is... - 27/07/2010 01:15:29 AM 545 Views
Re: I think the question is... - 27/07/2010 02:10:41 AM 518 Views
Re: I think the question is... - 27/07/2010 03:17:01 AM 588 Views
Re: I think the question is... - 27/07/2010 05:08:59 AM 588 Views
Re: I think the question is... - 27/07/2010 05:59:37 PM 545 Views
I'd say that there was a pre-meditated plan or backup plan to sacrifice Semirhage - 26/07/2010 09:02:44 AM 578 Views
I think SH simply didn't care about the CK access key - 26/07/2010 09:17:11 AM 509 Views
Re: I think SH simply didn't care about the CK access key - 26/07/2010 12:10:43 PM 499 Views
Re: I think SH simply didn't care about the CK access key - 26/07/2010 12:27:11 PM 583 Views
But if this was the plan... - 26/07/2010 12:30:37 PM 503 Views
Moridin and SH knew that the CK could never defeat the dark one so they were happy to leave it - 26/07/2010 05:56:56 PM 563 Views
Unlikely, and stupid if true - 26/07/2010 06:12:30 PM 509 Views
That wasn't the Choedan Kal, that was Shadar Logoth. - 27/07/2010 12:11:46 AM 467 Views
Re: That wasn't the Choedan Kal, that was Shadar Logoth. - 27/07/2010 01:29:29 AM 496 Views
I fail to see the relevance. *NM* - 27/07/2010 02:06:27 AM 226 Views
the relevance is that it was impossible without the CK - 27/07/2010 05:25:45 AM 442 Views
Are you certain? - 27/07/2010 05:37:28 AM 492 Views
Re: Are you certain? - 27/07/2010 03:00:51 PM 513 Views
Re: Are you certain? - 27/07/2010 06:17:59 PM 487 Views
key word is "necessary" *NM* - 27/07/2010 05:14:19 AM 209 Views
Re: Unlikely, and stupid if true - 27/07/2010 01:36:53 AM 460 Views
Re: Unlikely, and stupid if true - 27/07/2010 02:19:22 AM 498 Views
Re: Unlikely, and stupid if true - 27/07/2010 02:43:39 AM 516 Views
Re: Unlikely, and stupid if true - 27/07/2010 03:17:49 AM 520 Views
Re: Unlikely, and stupid if true - 27/07/2010 03:39:07 AM 510 Views
Re: Unlikely, and stupid if true - 27/07/2010 04:26:31 AM 523 Views
Something still doesn't make sense in that theory though - 27/07/2010 07:15:22 AM 573 Views
Re: Unlikely, and stupid if true - 27/07/2010 01:44:19 AM 550 Views
Re: Unlikely, and stupid if true - 27/07/2010 05:31:03 AM 472 Views
Re: Unlikely, and stupid if true - 27/07/2010 03:53:20 PM 508 Views
??? The CK in the hands of a madman is exactly what the Dark One needs to destroy the pattern - 27/07/2010 07:01:13 AM 514 Views
So why not give it to Moridin then? - 27/07/2010 10:54:47 AM 512 Views
Re: I think SH simply didn't care about the CK access key - 27/07/2010 12:10:01 AM 468 Views
This has been seen and commented before, by myself and others. - 26/07/2010 03:36:51 PM 477 Views
Sorry I missed them. I would have been happy enough to comment there. - 27/07/2010 03:43:46 AM 487 Views
Considering there are years and years worth of comments... - 27/07/2010 02:49:42 PM 456 Views
Hands up if you don't believe in foreshadowing in this series - 26/07/2010 04:27:14 PM 505 Views
Re: Hands up if you don't believe in foreshadowing in this series - 26/07/2010 10:34:18 PM 462 Views
Prophesying, but not foreshadowing. - 27/07/2010 12:06:06 AM 434 Views
You confuse foreshadowing and predictability - 27/07/2010 02:57:15 AM 798 Views
I agree with DomA *NM* *NM* - 27/07/2010 03:44:51 AM 222 Views
I don't believe in foreshadowing that you can figure out from the actual plot. - 27/07/2010 08:42:11 PM 472 Views

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