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Sure..I'll answer your questions again.. "quid pro quo"? Mik Send a noteboard - 27/07/2010 12:43:21 PM
You suggest that Moridin and SH are one creature,..
Yes.
...fused together like Luc and Isam are,...
Yes. In a nutthsell:
The same method, yet with a totally different result ofcourse. Isam and Luc both had living minds, but both couldn't channel. I'm pretty sure what Fades have for a mind doesn't qualify as a living mind. And yet Shai'tan needs just that for a Myrddraal to be able to channel. Oh the irony!

With Slayer - Luc & Isam; one lived and one died.
With the Nae'blis - Moridin & Shaidar Haran; one lived and one is 'neverborn'.
So yeah; same method... very different result.

...but actually also Ishy and SH 0.5. were already one creature.
I'm not sure if they were already one creature like Slayer is. I doubt that Ishamael was already linked to a specific Fade in that way back then to be honest.
First off, because Slayer is a 'newer' evil then Ba'alzamon.
By making Slayer, he found out a better method.
Second, because we know Shaidar Haran actually is a 'better' version of the previous one.
The current situation allowed for that better version.

I am convinced though, that Ishamael was capable of somehow linking to Myrddraal. Invading their mind and partly controlling the Myrddraal.

Compare it to what Myrddraal can do to Trollocs.
I think Ishamael could do something very similar that to a Myrddraal.
And I think as Moridin / Shaidar Haran, he can do that to all Myrddraal.

... Your evidence is that the Trollocs named Ishy Ba'alzamon, and consequently he must have a physical link to a Myrddraal.
Etzel...stuff ads up. That's just one tiny part of it and you know it. I said that Trollocs having a different name for Ishamael -namely Ba'alzamon- is one of those clues, because Trollocs name their Myrddraal, yet we never see one named!
Incidently, no other Chosen has a Trolloc name. Those things stand out when you look at a bigger picture then you do Etzel.
Sorry.

RJ put some other clues in the books too, like constantly hinting that there was more to Ishamael and Moridin then that he was 'merely human'. Sometimes even in terms of 'half-human & half-mad'. You can either ignore those, or you can put half and half together. (pun intended ;))

“Ishamael was more than half-mad,” Sammael muttered, “and less than half-human.”
“Is that what we are?” Graendal arched an eyebrow. “Merely human? (TFoH, Prologue - The First Sparks Fall)
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A youthful face had not made him [Moridin] any saner, either. [Demandred’s thoughts] (WH, Chapter 13 - Wonderful News)
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But the fact remained that Moridin terrified him [Osan’gar]. The man had always terrified him, from the very beginning. He had been mad with power before they were sealed into the Bore, and since they had been freed, he seemed to think that he was the Great Lord. (WH, Chapter 35 - With the Choedan Kal)
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She [Aran’gar] had no regrets that the True Power was limited to his use alone, now. The price was much too high. Ishamael had certainly been at least half insane, and he still was as Moridin. How long before she could remove him? (KoD, Chapter 3 – At the Gardens)
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Graendal believed this Myrddraal. Or whatever it truly was.(TPOD, Chapter 12 - New Alliances)
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“Who in the Light are you?” [Rand] whispered. And after a moment, “What in the Light are you?”
Whoever or whatever, the man was gone, though. (ACoS, Chapter 41 - A Crown of Swords)
You might have heard the term foreshadowing perhaps.. ;)
It's only foreshadowing if you manage to read the hints between the lines before it's pointed out to you by the writer though.
Then it's just admiring the beauty of the story in hindsight.


...The other evidence is that the Nae'blis is just half a step below the DO, and consequently the DO would fuse himself together with his Nae'blis.
You look at incidents and try to ridicule them. I look at the whole story and see the Pattern within the Pattern. You see lame hints. I see true beauty in how the story unfolds. You think 'half a step' is meaningless drivel. I see yet another hint.

I'm not here to ruin your experience, Etzel. I'm trying to help you see a different story. If you don't want that, just say it and I'll not bother anymore with these posts. Ok?


...Finally, Carrdin was visited by SH 0.5. but after Ishy's death, Carridin was left alone for some reason, which is obviously that Ishy and SH 0.5. were one creature.
Again, you try to ridicule me showing you that there's something odd about that whole story-line. I went out of my way to proove that;
a) Ishamael was the only one knowing about SHv.0.5 (Fact. No other Forsaken knew and Ishamael was working together somehow with it)
b) Ishamael dies and SHv0.5 stops killing Carridins family as it was and as it promised for roughly two months, while it picks up again like nothing happened later and even Moridin finds his way back into Carridins fate again.

Now I don't expect flowers and a feather up my arse for showing you something new. But I certainly didn't expect to have those facts ridiculed.
Whatever man.


...Irrespective if this evidence is in any way convincing, or if it couldn't be explained in more reasonable ways (namely that Moridin and SH are simply closely working together and not physically linked), you have to note that if we read Moridin's or SH's PoV neither indicates at all that both are one being (if we read Isam's/Luc's it's immediately made clear that they are fused together). In the same way, the authors always distinguish between SH and Moridin in their statements. Why do you think, they would fool us that way, just for a lame twist?
I give up.
Lame twist? :(
I think it's beautiful. Rj had this planned from the very first chapter. It's hidden all over the books... in so many ways, it's beyond stupid I'm still here trying to convince you.
And you call it a 'lame twist'.

Maybe you'll apreciate it better once it's spelled out for you in the books. *shrugs*
Mik ~ Ishamaels halfmad 'brother'

Death dances in my footsteps....
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Moridin & Shadar Haran - 22/07/2010 08:14:27 PM 1547 Views
No... - 22/07/2010 08:22:52 PM 935 Views
Re: No... - 22/07/2010 09:31:35 PM 848 Views
Re: No...(en garde, Etzellius Maximus!) - 23/07/2010 08:38:26 AM 863 Views
Well, I already talked more about it below - 23/07/2010 09:17:10 AM 958 Views
Re: Well, I already talked more about it below - 23/07/2010 11:29:08 AM 802 Views
Yup, I think they are one and the same. - 23/07/2010 08:21:20 AM 1099 Views
This idea is hardly vindicable - 23/07/2010 09:12:14 AM 852 Views
Au contraire. - 23/07/2010 11:23:09 AM 949 Views
But why... - 23/07/2010 11:32:25 AM 809 Views
Re: But why... - 23/07/2010 12:01:00 PM 841 Views
Again. RJ fooled you. - 23/07/2010 12:15:26 PM 852 Views
I think it would have to work this way: - 23/07/2010 03:10:59 PM 795 Views
Your reasoning falls apart right at the start, even though there is some truth to the rest, I think. - 23/07/2010 04:22:22 PM 895 Views
Um not quite - 25/07/2010 05:47:22 AM 755 Views
Hehehe. True, but the mental image still helps. - 25/07/2010 08:29:18 AM 988 Views
Re: Hehehe. True, but the mental image still helps. - 25/07/2010 08:32:10 AM 1020 Views
I think your evidence is pretty weak... - 26/07/2010 10:14:01 AM 713 Views
Why don't you answer some of the issues I raised then, instead of keeping it vague..? - 26/07/2010 11:58:02 AM 819 Views
Re: Why don't you answer some of the issues I raised then, instead of keeping it vague..? - 26/07/2010 12:18:51 PM 812 Views
Re: Why don't you answer some of the issues I raised then, instead of keeping it vague..? - 26/07/2010 12:43:53 PM 765 Views
Frankly, I don't see any similarity... - 26/07/2010 01:57:56 PM 834 Views
Re: Frankly, I don't see any similarity... - 26/07/2010 04:09:52 PM 684 Views
The problem is... - 26/07/2010 04:27:50 PM 640 Views
No problem at all, but your unwillingness to accept the possibilty after all these years. - 27/07/2010 11:38:10 AM 753 Views
I already answered all this... - 27/07/2010 11:46:36 AM 767 Views
Yeah. And as proven earlier your answers are flat-out wrong. - 27/07/2010 01:17:36 PM 872 Views
I think we have to agree to disagree - 27/07/2010 01:34:34 PM 707 Views
Agreed then. - 27/07/2010 02:03:52 PM 857 Views
Thanks for those answers. Here's how wrong they actually are: - 26/07/2010 01:54:44 PM 793 Views
No problem - 26/07/2010 02:30:45 PM 841 Views
Why does that scene matter? - 26/07/2010 04:16:33 PM 729 Views
Dunno, you have to ask Mik about this. *NM* - 26/07/2010 04:23:19 PM 402 Views
Why the half answer? Here's my full answer and the questions you missed..again.. - 26/07/2010 05:14:00 PM 920 Views
Just to understand you correctly... - 26/07/2010 05:33:46 PM 760 Views
Sure..I'll answer your questions again.. "quid pro quo"? - 27/07/2010 12:43:21 PM 837 Views
Well, kudos to you, if that idea turns out to be right - 27/07/2010 01:27:05 PM 801 Views
Re: Well, kudos to you, if that idea turns out to be right - 27/07/2010 01:56:32 PM 692 Views
The DO has control over Moridin... - 27/07/2010 02:04:50 PM 648 Views
Uhh. Thanks ..I guess. - 27/07/2010 01:57:38 PM 861 Views
I almost want the theory to be true, but one quick thing: - 26/07/2010 03:53:04 PM 728 Views
Re: I almost want the theory to be true, but one quick thing: - 26/07/2010 04:18:40 PM 636 Views
True, but if they're ordering other people to do it anyway... - 26/07/2010 04:51:18 PM 672 Views
One should also remember... - 26/07/2010 05:06:36 PM 669 Views
Eh? - 26/07/2010 05:30:20 PM 692 Views
But that the killing stopped, doesn't mean at all that Moridin and SH are one creature. *NM* - 26/07/2010 05:35:02 PM 744 Views
Give me a better reason? Why did RJ make the timing fit and hid it so far apart? - 26/07/2010 05:36:28 PM 777 Views
I think... - 26/07/2010 05:48:21 PM 594 Views
Re: I almost want the theory to be true, but one quick thing: - 26/07/2010 05:22:46 PM 838 Views
Re: This idea is hardly vindicable - 27/07/2010 04:07:53 PM 711 Views
= - Oh and has anyone given thought to Hopper = Bela? - 27/07/2010 09:17:18 PM 643 Views
Thanks! *bows and tips wide-brimmed hat* - 28/07/2010 07:54:05 AM 871 Views
Not the same individual - 24/07/2010 02:16:01 PM 717 Views
Re: Not the same individual - 24/07/2010 06:07:10 PM 609 Views
Aww Dom. I really hoped you were on the same page.. - 25/07/2010 09:38:35 AM 907 Views

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