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Re: I think the question is... DomA Send a noteboard - 27/07/2010 05:08:59 AM
I don't think we know this for certain.


Brandon said LTT was right that the DO is the TP. I asked someone who went to a Stormleader event to ask him that directly (because it had been my theory about the nature of the DO for many books... so I was very interested in getting a confirmation). The quote was in his report. It's most likely in Terez's DB on TL (though maybe not the exact question I got Peter or Ken to ask Brandon)

I think the idea that Rand shared Moridins TP is plausible.


Yet very unlikely IMO. It would mean their connection to the TS have fused, that they draw from the same connection, and IMO there's absolutely nothing in the books to support that notion,

Obviously its not confirmed and we don't know for sure until the next/final book, but the DO=TP does not in my mind make it impossible that Rand took TP via Moridin. Even if the DO is somekind of energy cloud, that does not make it impossible that he gave some of that energy to Moridin, only to have it flow to Rand also.


You transform Moridin into some sort of well or alternative source for the TP. That's a most bizarre notion.



I am not suggesting that they are only linked through OP


Actually you do, or you misunderstand that humans must have the ability to channel to draw the TP. If Rand drew the TP through Moridin's connection, it means Moridin and Rand share their connection to the TS as well, and would be aware whenever the other channels, because it would feel as if they had embrace the Power themselves.


The whole philosophical though about Creator being a gardener was also most likely from Moridin so their minds/thoughts are merging too.


No, you brought that one above too, but you are mismembering it. Moridin said nothing about that, it was LTT. That's not Moridin's philosophy, it's most likely a reflect of how AOLers felt about the Creator when their God never seemed to come to their help. It must have been depressing, when the other side's God helped directly. It's no wonder so many lost faith and joined the Shadow. Rand/LTT's faith was rekindled on DM - the Creator leaves us the choice to fight Shai'tan or not, it's up to us, and we've decided Creation is worth saving. The Creator told Rand no different in EOTW: "only the Chosen One can do it, if he choose to". Rand was always to face that choice.

Infact the thoughts Rand has about creation at the end of TGS could almost be coming from Moridins mouth.


Yes. After Rand channelled the TP, his mirroring of Moridin started increasing at top speed, until on DM he basically quoted Elan Morin's nihilist philosophy about the Pattern being a prison to make souls suffer.

What I am suggesting that its not just body(hand/tiredness) and mind(philosophical thoughts) that are connecting, but ALSO their intangible power connections. If they are merging in all other ways then why not in that way too?

The cases where Rand got sick without using the OP are rare. Only a few cases. If Rand got sick everytime Moridin used TP, he would be constantly sick.


By all evidence, Moridin now spends most of his time at SG, quite incapacitated (he doesn't seem to have Rand's resilience). How often does he channel anyway?

In a lot of cases Rand also actually sees Moridin during the moment of dizziness.


And it turn this doesn't happen only when Rand feels sick. He sees/feels Moridin, or what Moridin sees, notably when Moridin feels very strong emotions.

The face of the man from Shadar Logoth floated in his head for a moment. He looked furious. And near to sicking up. Without any doubt he was aware of Rand in that moment, and Rand of him. Move a hair in any direction, and they would touch. No more than a hair.


A case of the above. When Rand embraces saidin, his reaction is very violent and overwhelming. Moridin feels it (as Birgitte would if Elayne was in the same situation), and experienced a strong emotion: fury. When they're connected this way, they see each other.

Another similar case not involving saidin or sickness occured when Moridin was in a fury at a meeting of the Forsaken (when he told them in anger "if you want to kill somebody, kill those two!" and Rand too was in a mood. He suddenly thought angrily that he needed Perrin and Mat but they were off at the Ansaline Gardens.

I should also mention that we get a description of the type of sickness Rand feels from the conflict between his wounds, and it does not match the description of the OP-sickness.


Of course, when it comes through Moridin it's less violent, that's all. It's the same for Rand. To him it's "overwhelming" while to Moridin it was "he looked about to sick up".


No, I am convinced that the dizziness and sickness that comes with OP is indeed caused by the balefire link. That is why Moridin has abandoned OP. He may have wielded it a couple of times (the few times Rand got dizzy without channeling), but now he has gone TP only to avoid the nausea, and it should be added that since then Rand has not got sick without channeling himself.

As I said earlier, Demandred mentions that Moridin would have had to have used TP exclusively since he last saw him. But the way he says it implies that this is new kind of behaviour and Ishy at least used to use both. So why had Moridin gone TP only?


Demandred meant "since Ishamael re-appeared as Moridin" he had to channel exclusively the TP to get the saa so fast.

Moridin already had the saa before the SL incident. Nothing suggests any sudden change of behaviour, and he seemed to have used almost exclusively the TP as Ishamael as well.

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foreshadowing of Semirhage's death - 25/07/2010 07:13:48 AM 1578 Views
I don't think that Semirhage was sacrificed - 25/07/2010 08:36:47 AM 790 Views
No, too tired to give reasons... *NM* - 25/07/2010 09:30:46 AM 240 Views
Re: No, too tired to give reasons... *NM* - 26/07/2010 01:19:26 AM 247 Views
I disagree about the TP aspect - 25/07/2010 03:30:37 PM 698 Views
Re: I disagree about the TP aspect - 25/07/2010 04:03:45 PM 690 Views
It's an interesting theory in either direction - 25/07/2010 04:54:31 PM 631 Views
Re: It's an interesting theory in either direction - 26/07/2010 02:17:35 AM 492 Views
You can't expect BS to give away things with 2 books to go. - 26/07/2010 01:48:37 AM 562 Views
Re: You can't expect BS to give away things with 2 books to go. - 26/07/2010 02:24:29 AM 514 Views
Re: I disagree about the TP aspect - 26/07/2010 01:22:30 AM 526 Views
Re: I disagree about the TP aspect - 26/07/2010 02:30:11 AM 503 Views
^^^what Datakim said^^^ - 26/07/2010 06:58:02 PM 521 Views
I don't know if Semirhage was sacrificed or not. Either way the Semirhage quote set up tGS 6 books - 26/07/2010 02:29:59 AM 581 Views
You were right the first time - 26/07/2010 03:02:22 AM 628 Views
I think the question is... - 26/07/2010 08:27:17 AM 544 Views
Re: I think the question is... - 27/07/2010 12:43:44 AM 527 Views
Re: I think the question is... - 27/07/2010 01:15:29 AM 545 Views
Re: I think the question is... - 27/07/2010 02:10:41 AM 518 Views
Re: I think the question is... - 27/07/2010 03:17:01 AM 588 Views
Re: I think the question is... - 27/07/2010 05:08:59 AM 588 Views
Re: I think the question is... - 27/07/2010 05:59:37 PM 544 Views
I'd say that there was a pre-meditated plan or backup plan to sacrifice Semirhage - 26/07/2010 09:02:44 AM 578 Views
I think SH simply didn't care about the CK access key - 26/07/2010 09:17:11 AM 509 Views
Re: I think SH simply didn't care about the CK access key - 26/07/2010 12:10:43 PM 499 Views
Re: I think SH simply didn't care about the CK access key - 26/07/2010 12:27:11 PM 583 Views
But if this was the plan... - 26/07/2010 12:30:37 PM 503 Views
Moridin and SH knew that the CK could never defeat the dark one so they were happy to leave it - 26/07/2010 05:56:56 PM 563 Views
Unlikely, and stupid if true - 26/07/2010 06:12:30 PM 509 Views
That wasn't the Choedan Kal, that was Shadar Logoth. - 27/07/2010 12:11:46 AM 467 Views
Re: That wasn't the Choedan Kal, that was Shadar Logoth. - 27/07/2010 01:29:29 AM 496 Views
I fail to see the relevance. *NM* - 27/07/2010 02:06:27 AM 226 Views
the relevance is that it was impossible without the CK - 27/07/2010 05:25:45 AM 441 Views
Are you certain? - 27/07/2010 05:37:28 AM 492 Views
Re: Are you certain? - 27/07/2010 03:00:51 PM 513 Views
Re: Are you certain? - 27/07/2010 06:17:59 PM 487 Views
key word is "necessary" *NM* - 27/07/2010 05:14:19 AM 209 Views
Re: Unlikely, and stupid if true - 27/07/2010 01:36:53 AM 459 Views
Re: Unlikely, and stupid if true - 27/07/2010 02:19:22 AM 498 Views
Re: Unlikely, and stupid if true - 27/07/2010 02:43:39 AM 516 Views
Re: Unlikely, and stupid if true - 27/07/2010 03:17:49 AM 520 Views
Re: Unlikely, and stupid if true - 27/07/2010 03:39:07 AM 510 Views
Re: Unlikely, and stupid if true - 27/07/2010 04:26:31 AM 522 Views
Something still doesn't make sense in that theory though - 27/07/2010 07:15:22 AM 573 Views
Re: Unlikely, and stupid if true - 27/07/2010 01:44:19 AM 550 Views
Re: Unlikely, and stupid if true - 27/07/2010 05:31:03 AM 472 Views
Re: Unlikely, and stupid if true - 27/07/2010 03:53:20 PM 508 Views
??? The CK in the hands of a madman is exactly what the Dark One needs to destroy the pattern - 27/07/2010 07:01:13 AM 514 Views
So why not give it to Moridin then? - 27/07/2010 10:54:47 AM 512 Views
Re: I think SH simply didn't care about the CK access key - 27/07/2010 12:10:01 AM 468 Views
This has been seen and commented before, by myself and others. - 26/07/2010 03:36:51 PM 476 Views
Sorry I missed them. I would have been happy enough to comment there. - 27/07/2010 03:43:46 AM 487 Views
Considering there are years and years worth of comments... - 27/07/2010 02:49:42 PM 456 Views
Hands up if you don't believe in foreshadowing in this series - 26/07/2010 04:27:14 PM 505 Views
Re: Hands up if you don't believe in foreshadowing in this series - 26/07/2010 10:34:18 PM 462 Views
Prophesying, but not foreshadowing. - 27/07/2010 12:06:06 AM 434 Views
You confuse foreshadowing and predictability - 27/07/2010 02:57:15 AM 798 Views
I agree with DomA *NM* *NM* - 27/07/2010 03:44:51 AM 222 Views
I don't believe in foreshadowing that you can figure out from the actual plot. - 27/07/2010 08:42:11 PM 472 Views

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