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Re: I think the question is... Datakim Send a noteboard - 27/07/2010 03:17:01 AM

A bit too crude an analogy. It used to be a theory, that the TP was Shai'tan's blood/energy, but as far as we now know, the True Power isn't part of Shai'tan or an aspect of Shai'tan. What LTT said (and Brandon said was right) was : it is him, not "it comes from him". So it appears Shai'tan is a sentient energy field, aka The True Power.


I don't think we know this for certain. Unless you have a quote that I am missing (possible I admit). The true nature of the DO is very poorly understood at this point. I think the idea that Rand shared Moridins TP is plausible. Obviously its not confirmed and we don't know for sure until the next/final book, but the DO=TP does not in my mind make it impossible that Rand took TP via Moridin. Even if the DO is somekind of energy cloud, that does not make it impossible that he gave some of that energy to Moridin, only to have it flow to Rand also.


I find it quite inconclusive and here's why:

- There are other instances when Moridin and Rand feel what the other physically feel (much like Birgitte and Elayne do with each other). In TGS, Moridin feels Rand's "ghost limb" syndrom, for instance.


I am not suggesting that they are only linked through OP, obviously they do share physical traits at this point. The hand is one example, and Moridin also mentions that he feels tired constantly and wonders if its him or Rand, (Rand was mentioned being tired in the same way earlier). The whole philosophical though about Creator being a gardener was also most likely from Moridin so their minds/thoughts are merging too. No doubt this helped Rands insanity. Infact the thoughts Rand has about creation at the end of TGS could almost be coming from Moridins mouth.

What I am suggesting that its not just body(hand/tiredness) and mind(philosophical thoughts) that are connecting, but ALSO their intangible power connections. If they are merging in all other ways then why not in that way too?


It means Moridin's dizzyness could be explained the same way - he shares Rand's sickness when Rand embraces saidin. Rand's sickness is widely believed to be related to either one or the interaction of his two wounds, which exacerbates the dizzyness/nausea already caused by the Taint (also the TP) on saidin, Rand's dizzyness may not be caused because his "connection to the TS and Moridin's are fused", but simply Rand feels sick because whenever Moridin embraces the True Power, his two wounds make him sick.


Maybe, but unlikely. The cases where Rand got sick without using the OP are rare. Only a few cases. If Rand got sick everytime Moridin used TP, he would be constantly sick. However if it happens only when Moridin uses OP (which he no longer does) then that would explain much.

Also, you are forgetting that it is not just nausea/dizziness that comes with the OP-sickness Rand is suffering from. In a lot of cases Rand also actually sees Moridin during the moment of dizziness.


Yet with saidin came the inevitable violent nausea, the almost overwhelming desire to double over and empty himself of every meal he had ever eaten. His knees trembled with it. He fought that as hard as he fought the Power, and saidin had to be fought ever and always. A man forced saidin to his will, or it destroyed him. The face of the man from Shadar Logoth floated in his head for a moment. He looked furious. And near to sicking up. Without any doubt he was aware of Rand in that moment, and Rand of him. Move a hair in any direction, and they would touch. No more than a hair.


That is not the only time Rand uses OP, and the face of Moridin appears in his head at the same time as the sickness. I doubt very much thats a coincidence.

I should also mention that we get a description of the type of sickness Rand feels from the conflict between his wounds, and it does not match the description of the OP-sickness.


Distantly he felt the new wound in his side throbbing, a slash of flame, echoing the evil that clung to the very dust of Shadar Logoth. The old scar clenched like a fist. The pain of his foot seemed very distant indeed. Closer, the Void itself pulsated around him, the Dark One’s taint on saidin beating in time with the knife slash across his ribs.

--------------------------

The taint on the male half had its opposite twin, too. The wound given him by Ishamael throbbed in time with the taint, while the other, from Fain's blade, beat counterpoint in time with the evil that had killed Aridhol.


Quite different. He feels pain but no nausea. No, I am convinced that the dizziness and sickness that comes with OP is indeed caused by the balefire link. That is why Moridin has abandoned OP. He may have wielded it a couple of times (the few times Rand got dizzy without channeling), but now he has gone TP only to avoid the nausea, and it should be added that since then Rand has not got sick without channeling himself.


There's no good evidence that Moridin uses saidin on any regular basis anymore. The only instance where we've seen him contemplate the notion was because he could have an angreal, but even then he virtually shrugged it off.


I don't believe Moridin does use saidin. Infact it is even said in the books. As I said earlier, Demandred mentions that Moridin would have had to have used TP exclusively since he last saw him. But the way he says it implies that this is new kind of behaviour and Ishy at least used to use both. So why had Moridin gone TP only?

The possibility he cannot (easily) use OP anymore due to the link is good explanation to me. Rand has no other choice and so he has to suffer the horrible sickness everytime, but Moridin does have the choice of side-effect free TP. Moridin only gets sick when Rand uses OP, which makes him furious.
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foreshadowing of Semirhage's death - 25/07/2010 07:13:48 AM 1578 Views
I don't think that Semirhage was sacrificed - 25/07/2010 08:36:47 AM 789 Views
No, too tired to give reasons... *NM* - 25/07/2010 09:30:46 AM 240 Views
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I disagree about the TP aspect - 25/07/2010 03:30:37 PM 698 Views
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It's an interesting theory in either direction - 25/07/2010 04:54:31 PM 631 Views
Re: It's an interesting theory in either direction - 26/07/2010 02:17:35 AM 491 Views
You can't expect BS to give away things with 2 books to go. - 26/07/2010 01:48:37 AM 562 Views
Re: You can't expect BS to give away things with 2 books to go. - 26/07/2010 02:24:29 AM 513 Views
Re: I disagree about the TP aspect - 26/07/2010 01:22:30 AM 524 Views
Re: I disagree about the TP aspect - 26/07/2010 02:30:11 AM 502 Views
^^^what Datakim said^^^ - 26/07/2010 06:58:02 PM 521 Views
I don't know if Semirhage was sacrificed or not. Either way the Semirhage quote set up tGS 6 books - 26/07/2010 02:29:59 AM 580 Views
You were right the first time - 26/07/2010 03:02:22 AM 627 Views
I think the question is... - 26/07/2010 08:27:17 AM 542 Views
Re: I think the question is... - 27/07/2010 12:43:44 AM 526 Views
Re: I think the question is... - 27/07/2010 01:15:29 AM 544 Views
Re: I think the question is... - 27/07/2010 02:10:41 AM 518 Views
Re: I think the question is... - 27/07/2010 03:17:01 AM 587 Views
Re: I think the question is... - 27/07/2010 05:08:59 AM 587 Views
Re: I think the question is... - 27/07/2010 05:59:37 PM 543 Views
I'd say that there was a pre-meditated plan or backup plan to sacrifice Semirhage - 26/07/2010 09:02:44 AM 578 Views
I think SH simply didn't care about the CK access key - 26/07/2010 09:17:11 AM 509 Views
Re: I think SH simply didn't care about the CK access key - 26/07/2010 12:10:43 PM 498 Views
Re: I think SH simply didn't care about the CK access key - 26/07/2010 12:27:11 PM 582 Views
But if this was the plan... - 26/07/2010 12:30:37 PM 501 Views
Moridin and SH knew that the CK could never defeat the dark one so they were happy to leave it - 26/07/2010 05:56:56 PM 562 Views
Unlikely, and stupid if true - 26/07/2010 06:12:30 PM 508 Views
That wasn't the Choedan Kal, that was Shadar Logoth. - 27/07/2010 12:11:46 AM 467 Views
Re: That wasn't the Choedan Kal, that was Shadar Logoth. - 27/07/2010 01:29:29 AM 494 Views
I fail to see the relevance. *NM* - 27/07/2010 02:06:27 AM 226 Views
the relevance is that it was impossible without the CK - 27/07/2010 05:25:45 AM 440 Views
Are you certain? - 27/07/2010 05:37:28 AM 492 Views
Re: Are you certain? - 27/07/2010 03:00:51 PM 512 Views
Re: Are you certain? - 27/07/2010 06:17:59 PM 486 Views
key word is "necessary" *NM* - 27/07/2010 05:14:19 AM 209 Views
Re: Unlikely, and stupid if true - 27/07/2010 01:36:53 AM 459 Views
Re: Unlikely, and stupid if true - 27/07/2010 02:19:22 AM 498 Views
Re: Unlikely, and stupid if true - 27/07/2010 02:43:39 AM 514 Views
Re: Unlikely, and stupid if true - 27/07/2010 03:17:49 AM 520 Views
Re: Unlikely, and stupid if true - 27/07/2010 03:39:07 AM 508 Views
Re: Unlikely, and stupid if true - 27/07/2010 04:26:31 AM 521 Views
Something still doesn't make sense in that theory though - 27/07/2010 07:15:22 AM 572 Views
Re: Unlikely, and stupid if true - 27/07/2010 01:44:19 AM 549 Views
Re: Unlikely, and stupid if true - 27/07/2010 05:31:03 AM 471 Views
Re: Unlikely, and stupid if true - 27/07/2010 03:53:20 PM 507 Views
??? The CK in the hands of a madman is exactly what the Dark One needs to destroy the pattern - 27/07/2010 07:01:13 AM 512 Views
So why not give it to Moridin then? - 27/07/2010 10:54:47 AM 511 Views
Re: I think SH simply didn't care about the CK access key - 27/07/2010 12:10:01 AM 467 Views
This has been seen and commented before, by myself and others. - 26/07/2010 03:36:51 PM 475 Views
Sorry I missed them. I would have been happy enough to comment there. - 27/07/2010 03:43:46 AM 486 Views
Considering there are years and years worth of comments... - 27/07/2010 02:49:42 PM 454 Views
Hands up if you don't believe in foreshadowing in this series - 26/07/2010 04:27:14 PM 503 Views
Re: Hands up if you don't believe in foreshadowing in this series - 26/07/2010 10:34:18 PM 462 Views
Prophesying, but not foreshadowing. - 27/07/2010 12:06:06 AM 432 Views
You confuse foreshadowing and predictability - 27/07/2010 02:57:15 AM 798 Views
I agree with DomA *NM* *NM* - 27/07/2010 03:44:51 AM 222 Views
I don't believe in foreshadowing that you can figure out from the actual plot. - 27/07/2010 08:42:11 PM 471 Views

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