Re: I love this line of analysis, but Mat does tend to treat channelers like people
DomA Send a noteboard - 21/07/2010 01:07:57 AM
He treats AS like equals - joking with them, snarking at them, etc. When they acting superior because they have the Power, he treats them like idiotic (but normal) people. This is in keeping with his general attitudes towards Nobles - no one's better because of who their parents were or their station in life...
I never saw Mat as wanting away from the Power so badly that he'd need the Seanchan's example to straighten him out. Although it wasn't discussed, hearing about Eggy's treatment in TGH was probably enough, and that was 8+ books ago.
What's more, Mat would need to be really dim to think that the Seanchan have found a way to be rid of Aes Sedai and the bloody Power. That'd be like an 1800's North Carolina slave-owner thinking he's free of dark-skinned folks because they're his property - you can't be free from something that you surround yourself with.
It's more than just about Rand. Mat thinks pretty much the same about all channellers, and it's worse with men (he will gt totally creeped out by Asha'man... he doesn't know them yet... but he might have to lead them into battle before the end...)
Mat is massively prejudiced against and frightened by channellers in general.
Jordan was slowly bringing Mat around.
Logically, Mat's prejudices should have lead him to embrace the Seanchan's vision of things, but this clashed with the rest of his values (his dislike of authority and restraints that make him see slavery as some kind of an ultimate evil; his unbringing that leads him to believe men have the duty to put themselves at risk whenever women/children are in danger etc.). More and more, he realises that they way to be "rid of Aes Sedai and the One Power" as he once wished is the Seanchan's, and that's not a solution he can morally accept. So his meeting with Tuon acted like a mirror. He saw in her what people who think channellers are dangerous and unwelcome (like he does) are really like when they make they act of their beliefs, and he didn't like it one bit.
Eventually, this should lead him to accept channellers, and deal with and overcome his fear of them. And that will leave him with the task of bringing Tuon around...
I wonder if seing a channeller pregnant and vulnerable because she's unable to channel at will, a mother like every other mother - and carrying Rand's children, might make a strong impression on Mat and make him finally see Rand and Elayne as "just humans".
I think Rand might have a harder time with Perrin than Mat. Once mat accepts Rand's channelling isn't evil or dangerous (and that saidin is clean, which Mat doesn't yet know), he doesn't have much other issues with Rand. Perrin's fears about Rand are more serious and deep than Mat's. It's Rand's "darkness" and tyranical tendencies he experienced and fears, and he fears for Faile. Contrary to appearances, I'm guessing it might be much harder to regain Perrin's friendship than Mat's (Rand, Egwene, Nynaeve, Elayne might all have a hard time accepting Mat has married a woman who enslave channellers, though. Egwene in particular might react very badly to that news, if she learns about this before Tuon comes around some).
I never saw Mat as wanting away from the Power so badly that he'd need the Seanchan's example to straighten him out. Although it wasn't discussed, hearing about Eggy's treatment in TGH was probably enough, and that was 8+ books ago.
What's more, Mat would need to be really dim to think that the Seanchan have found a way to be rid of Aes Sedai and the bloody Power. That'd be like an 1800's North Carolina slave-owner thinking he's free of dark-skinned folks because they're his property - you can't be free from something that you surround yourself with.
what about how Mat often mentions (to himself at least) how he doesn't really want to be near Rand, etc. You think this is just posturing? Or is their friendship pretty much done and they will just do what they need to do now to finish the last battle?
It's more than just about Rand. Mat thinks pretty much the same about all channellers, and it's worse with men (he will gt totally creeped out by Asha'man... he doesn't know them yet... but he might have to lead them into battle before the end...)
Mat is massively prejudiced against and frightened by channellers in general.
Jordan was slowly bringing Mat around.
Logically, Mat's prejudices should have lead him to embrace the Seanchan's vision of things, but this clashed with the rest of his values (his dislike of authority and restraints that make him see slavery as some kind of an ultimate evil; his unbringing that leads him to believe men have the duty to put themselves at risk whenever women/children are in danger etc.). More and more, he realises that they way to be "rid of Aes Sedai and the One Power" as he once wished is the Seanchan's, and that's not a solution he can morally accept. So his meeting with Tuon acted like a mirror. He saw in her what people who think channellers are dangerous and unwelcome (like he does) are really like when they make they act of their beliefs, and he didn't like it one bit.
Eventually, this should lead him to accept channellers, and deal with and overcome his fear of them. And that will leave him with the task of bringing Tuon around...
I wonder if seing a channeller pregnant and vulnerable because she's unable to channel at will, a mother like every other mother - and carrying Rand's children, might make a strong impression on Mat and make him finally see Rand and Elayne as "just humans".
I think Rand might have a harder time with Perrin than Mat. Once mat accepts Rand's channelling isn't evil or dangerous (and that saidin is clean, which Mat doesn't yet know), he doesn't have much other issues with Rand. Perrin's fears about Rand are more serious and deep than Mat's. It's Rand's "darkness" and tyranical tendencies he experienced and fears, and he fears for Faile. Contrary to appearances, I'm guessing it might be much harder to regain Perrin's friendship than Mat's (Rand, Egwene, Nynaeve, Elayne might all have a hard time accepting Mat has married a woman who enslave channellers, though. Egwene in particular might react very badly to that news, if she learns about this before Tuon comes around some).
You misunderstood me a bit.
I wasn't saying Mat thought like the Seanchan, but the way he felt about AS, he could have, with a different upbringing.
I meant more that when Mat met the Seanchan, he saw what people did when they "wanted to be rid of AS and the OP", and he found it repulsive. He saw the logical result of what he once wished. Since Ebou Dar, Mat is keener to see AS a women/people (annoying ones, but still people). More than he used to.
Rand and Tam
16/07/2010 06:13:30 AM
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Re: Rand and Tam
16/07/2010 06:40:07 AM
- 774 Views
Yes but
16/07/2010 10:09:58 PM
- 605 Views
Don't forget that when Mat isn't on a mission or held by a promise
17/07/2010 01:07:41 AM
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Mat never wants to be around anything that might get him killed
17/07/2010 02:43:18 AM
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I need whatever you use to say things in 1/3rd the space that I do *NM*
17/07/2010 04:32:05 PM
- 246 Views
Re: Yes but
17/07/2010 02:45:00 AM
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I love this line of analysis, but Mat does tend to treat channelers like people
17/07/2010 04:39:09 PM
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Re: I love this line of analysis, but Mat does tend to treat channelers like people
21/07/2010 01:07:57 AM
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Re: Rand and Tam
17/07/2010 02:20:44 AM
- 939 Views
I think Rand will get imprisoned by the Seanchan and so Rand won't have the chance...
21/07/2010 07:14:23 PM
- 536 Views