Active Users:1163 Time:23/11/2024 03:00:47 AM
Need better examples... scooter Send a noteboard - 20/07/2010 05:20:48 AM

Really? I'd like to know the plenty of examples of rulers in the Randland that Tuon is better of. Better than Morgaise was? Better than Elayne is? Better than any Borderland ruler is? How exactly?

I'll give you Tarabon rulers. They are dumb. But saying she's better than "most" of Randland rulers is just not true.

She's way better than the rulers of Cairhein, Tear, Illian, Tarabon, Amadicia, Ghealdan, Saldea and Arad Doman. Also, much better than Elaida. That's a significant portion of the Westlands.


I'm going to have to disagree with you on several of those examples. Several of them simply fell victim to the same fate as Morgase, having their realm usurped by a Forsaken, and they were shown to be competent previously. At least, we weren't given any reason to assume they were bad rulers except for the cultural prejudices of one culture or another.

Start with Cairhein. Until he got caught up in taveren political whirlpools, Galldrian had ruled effectively for 20 years. One could argue that given the situation he was handed coming out of the Aiel War, he was incredibly competent. He keep his people fed and peaceful in the worst situation.

Next I'll take on Tear. If you want to set aside the social injustices of the Seachan culture, then you have to be willing to do the same for the Tearans. The Council of High Lords had ruled an incredibly stable and prosperous nation for a thousand years.

Illian is an even worse example. The Council of Nine and King Mattin Stepaneos had been doing a fine job keeping a vibrant economy strong, and at least from the times we've seen Illian 'on screen', the people seemed well fed and cared for and content.

Tarabon and Arad Doman, I'll give you. Things were never described as much more than barely peaceful for the past eternity along the west coast.

Amadicia, though, no way. Again, you have to put aside cultural foibles and prejudices and the fact that both the Seanchan and the Whitecloaks are giant assholes. As rulers of a nation, the Whitecloaks seem to have been incredibly effecient, effective and stable.

Saldea... I suppose it could be argued that because Queen Tenobia basically abandoned her country to go traipsing around the countryside makes her a crappy ruler. But it could also be argued that she possibly only did that under Forsaken influence, giving her the Morgase 'Get Out of Jail Free Card' to play. Other than that, we really haven't been given any information on daily life in Saldea except via Faile. I don't think her experience could be considered typical though, so she really doesn't count as a window on the country. But generally, the Borderlander countries are all described as stable, strong, culturally proud people. We know Saldea does a lot of trade, at least in furs and ice peppers, so their economy must be at least decent. Oh! I forgot the Nynaeve scenes there after she dumps off Lan. Those make me think even better of Saldea...

I think the only one I left out was Ghealdan, of which we know nothing before the arrival of the Prophet, which seems at least as disruptive as a Forsaken showing up.

We've seen nothing really more impressive or spectacular from Seanchan and Tuon than the same things as found here. And since we know very little about the day to day lives of everyday Seanchan people, we can't really say how 'well' the Seanchan form of government works with any real authority, we have to make the same assumptions that can easily be made for nearly all of the countries accused.

Anyway, that's just what I thought about it and that makes it worth less than the electricity it cost to post it here. I realize I came to this discussion pretty late and for that, I do apologize, but the political science/history junkie in me decided to play devil's advocate. Thanks...
Scooter

Slave to Detail...Damned Purist
Reply to message
Character discussion 10 : Tuon - 18/07/2010 06:08:30 PM 1914 Views
Most annoying, unlikeable, incomprehensible, irredeemable character in the books. - 18/07/2010 06:44:14 PM 1093 Views
I disprove your argument with one word. Coincidentally, it is a character. - 18/07/2010 07:50:17 PM 909 Views
Bah. - 18/07/2010 11:51:48 PM 911 Views
Actually, I like both of them. - 19/07/2010 06:41:12 AM 825 Views
Re: Actually, I like both of them. - 21/07/2010 01:22:21 PM 768 Views
I really like Tuon. - 18/07/2010 07:45:11 PM 1002 Views
Re: I really like Tuon. - 18/07/2010 07:56:22 PM 951 Views
I guess I should have said she and Egwene share positive personality traits - 18/07/2010 09:01:50 PM 929 Views
Agreed. - 18/07/2010 09:11:19 PM 827 Views
Re: I really like Tuon. - 18/07/2010 11:53:37 PM 887 Views
well said *NM* - 19/07/2010 01:39:46 AM 407 Views
Re: I really like Tuon. - 19/07/2010 03:34:42 AM 846 Views
I disagree. *NM* - 19/07/2010 08:04:45 AM 380 Views
Brandon said it was her mental toughness... - 20/07/2010 06:34:18 AM 772 Views
Cool character but has major flaws - 19/07/2010 06:22:15 AM 867 Views
The a'dam and the 3 Oaths are a lot alike. - 20/07/2010 01:01:49 AM 939 Views
Re: The a'dam and the 3 Oaths are a lot alike. - 21/07/2010 02:22:26 PM 672 Views
Also... - 22/07/2010 08:39:48 PM 822 Views
Re: Also... - 22/07/2010 09:19:37 PM 694 Views
Re: "She is a better ruler than most". Really? Can you provide the examples? - 19/07/2010 06:58:46 PM 838 Views
Re: "She is a better ruler than most". Really? Can you provide the examples? - 20/07/2010 12:39:15 AM 821 Views
Yeah, What he said ^^ and... - 20/07/2010 01:05:49 AM 794 Views
Need better examples... - 20/07/2010 05:20:48 AM 740 Views
Re: "She is a better ruler than most". Really? Can you provide the examples? - 20/07/2010 03:59:30 PM 782 Views
You meant to say Graendal used Arad Doman as her base & destroyed it, right? - 20/07/2010 04:14:41 PM 888 Views
Yes. - 20/07/2010 05:17:32 PM 792 Views
There are plenty of examples - 20/07/2010 08:59:19 PM 953 Views
Re: There are plenty of examples - 21/07/2010 02:21:01 PM 689 Views
Tuon carries out enlightened absolutism, then - 22/07/2010 11:24:22 AM 872 Views
Re: Tuon carries out enlightened absolutism, then - 22/07/2010 03:32:54 PM 665 Views
The Seanchen as a whole are better rulers - 21/07/2010 04:21:09 AM 744 Views
Does Tuon know sul'dam can channel or not? - 18/07/2010 10:56:40 PM 835 Views
Answered my own question = Yes. - 18/07/2010 11:00:09 PM 811 Views
one of my favorite characters - 19/07/2010 01:38:53 AM 770 Views
Like her - 19/07/2010 07:00:01 AM 834 Views
A horrible woman - 19/07/2010 07:02:45 AM 910 Views
Re: A horrible woman - 19/07/2010 08:39:05 AM 830 Views
on this we agree - 19/07/2010 07:56:31 PM 855 Views
Re: on this we agree - 20/07/2010 01:04:07 AM 822 Views
Re: A horrible woman indeed! - 20/07/2010 01:17:18 AM 705 Views
Re: A horrible woman - 21/07/2010 04:19:24 PM 731 Views
I think she has the most potential for evil - 19/07/2010 03:24:28 PM 804 Views
Re: I think she has the most potential for evil - 21/07/2010 04:27:45 PM 700 Views
Re: I think she has the most potential for evil - 22/07/2010 07:54:24 PM 630 Views
Don't like her at all - 19/07/2010 06:38:05 PM 715 Views
I like her! As a character - 20/07/2010 01:46:09 AM 773 Views
One of Jordan's better done characters... - 20/07/2010 04:56:36 AM 785 Views
Tuon and omens plus other thoughts. - 20/07/2010 05:20:26 AM 739 Views
On that note, I think she is a bit uncanny because she sometimes seems a bit insane - 20/07/2010 03:52:58 PM 745 Views
One thing among many that really bothered me about Tuon - 21/07/2010 08:07:57 AM 766 Views
She would have been killed - 21/07/2010 08:43:44 AM 797 Views
Yup, she had no choice there. - 21/07/2010 04:31:13 PM 716 Views
Fortuona - 22/07/2010 03:36:51 AM 1137 Views

Reply to Message