Re: Completely agree on the Egwene-Logain alliance...
Cricketeer Send a noteboard - 13/07/2010 05:57:59 AM
There's been way too much shadowing about AS-AM joining, and also about Egwene bringing men to the Tower, for me to believe otherwise.
One clear case of this:
In tGH, Egwene sneaks in Rand (a male channeler) into the female quarters of Fal Dara (where men are not allowed). Moiraine sees this and thinks Egwene would end up as Amyrlin.
It is not very defined, but the clear foreshadowing seems to be that Egwene as Amyrlin is going to be doing unconventional things that take a lot of initiative. Her facilitating a man's entry to a place where men are not welcome seems to point to her helping to forge the AS-AM alliance.
Yup.
Egwene fears this alliance, but all her thinking points to ideas on how to absorb the other groups in the Tower in original ways that will work, so sooner or later, she'll get there. Significantly, Jordan totally omitted the possibility she does the same to male channellers down the line, that would have been way too unsubtle. Also significantly, Jordan has waited for a time when Egwene's power would be solid enough at the WT that she can pull this off.
As for foreshadowing, it goes way back to small things (incl. the Fal Dara scene), like how Moiraine explained early in EOTW in a private conversation with Egwene how the male channellers were not evil, etc.
The big turning point was when Egwene made the decision to free Logain, and what she told him then. She was the first Aes Sedai not trying to use him. Rand has repaid Egwene's loyalty fairly badly, and Logain's loyalty about as badly. He ressents Logain's leadership of his faction, and confines him to secondary tasks.. insulting ones like the fly whisk thing, but usually just menial stuff, like be a messenger, or guard a border. Rand trusts neither Egwene nor Logain (and supports Taim and dreams of a faction of AS lead by Alviarin that will crawl at his feet. It's like Alviarin's faction and Taim have been destined to be united all along!), but the seeds of trust between Egwene and Logain are there. Siuan can attest to Logain's character too. Siuan used him, but Logain stayed loyal to her nonetheless.
In a very short amount of scenes, since COT, Jordan has built up a big leadership crisis between Rand and Logain. He likes Rand, his decisions and his attitudes about as much as Egwene does. Logain like Egwene is loyal to the Light, but they both see Rand as a tyrant, and Egwene is just a step ahead of Logain in her thinking that Rand has no right to treat the channellers the way he does. Rand did almost nothing for the BT beside starting it. Logain's men are most likely far more his men than Rand's, and Rand has not acted in ways to convince these men he values them as more than tools/weapons, or is pleased Logain came to him, or showed his loyalty.
I think this is the meaning of Egwene's dream, where a laughing Logain steps over a crumbling Rand: Egwene will offer Logain's faction a proper place in the Tower as Aes Sedai, and will "free" Logain and his men from Rand. Oh, they will follow him in the LB and all, but they won't be his servants anymore.
I think in her big confrontation with Rand (which I expect to happen in Caemlyn in TOM, right before the battle with the BT, and will center on the fact Rand sent the AS to Taim despite Logain's warnings about the man, that and how Rand let the BT become a nest for the Shadow), Egwene will force Rand to recognize her authority over all AS, will make him agree to release from oaths of obedience any AS under his control, and then let slip " oh and by the way, this includes the male Aes Sedai as well. Logain has brought the Asha'man to me and they're all Aes Sedai now."
I guess I expect Egwene and Logain to put a kind of Fateful Concord sort of thing on Rand soon, then when Rand agrees to her conditions, she will commit all Aes Sedai to follow him in the LB.
Before his epiphany, Egwene would probably have ended up balefired if she pulled that off with Rand (during TGS anyway), but after the DM events, I guess Rand is likely to be angry yet understand the men are not just weapons, they're free to choose their leader like the Andorans and everybody else, and he's been a very bad leader to them so far, and Egwene has offered them a much better future than he could ever have hoped for them by welcoming them back among the Aes Sedai.
My 1st post here.
Don't see Egwene letting Logain's men become Aes Sedai. Firstly because of her fixation with oaths(don't think an oath rod works for men). Secondly because it was Logain and his men who captured and bonded Elaida's Aes sedai. Egwene may feel he has betrayed her trust. Finally because of Nicola's foretelling in LoC which seem to imply Asha'man and Aes Sedai will exist seperately and balance each other.
And also, Logain may trust Egwene some, but to be Aes Sedai he will have to kneel before Egwene. Logain has always struggled to show any amount of deference to anyone.So any alliance they have will be a tenuous one.
Event's surronding Black Tower will torn out like this(I think and hope):-
Both the Aes Sedai emissaries are captured and imprisoned by Taim. Escaped Black ajah comes to him. Together they attack Caemlyn. Egwene and Logain learns about this and attacks BT separately, but are beaten back. Then they for some sort of alliance to form mixed circles and attacks again. As the battle rages Rand comes with his coterie, tide of battle turns and darkfriends are driven out(hopefully most of them escape, and Lightside suffers heavy casualties). Pevara plays an important part in this victory(BSand said so). Rand faces Amyrlins anger. Cadsuane teaches Rand and Ash'aman what they need to learn etc.etc
What are your expectations for ToM?
- 03/07/2010 07:58:47 PM
1543 Views
Re: What are your expectations for ToM?
- 03/07/2010 10:08:48 PM
1092 Views
As usual, I'm impressed by the depth and clarity of your thoughts & logic. *NM*
- 04/07/2010 06:24:15 PM
299 Views
since sappy reunions are my favorite part
- 03/07/2010 11:10:02 PM
810 Views
I second everything except for the sappy part *NM*
- 04/07/2010 04:35:53 AM
305 Views
(i haven't actually considered any WoT reunions sappy) *NM*
- 04/07/2010 06:46:31 AM
298 Views
Well, a sappy reunion with Bela would be totally fine *NM*
- 04/07/2010 03:49:50 PM
309 Views
Oh I so hope we get to see Bela again!
- 04/07/2010 06:50:26 PM
690 Views
We need to find Bela a good horse to settle down with. And a wedding planner =) *NM*
- 04/07/2010 07:00:25 PM
319 Views
I hope that we will finally learn who killed Asmodean.
- 04/07/2010 02:45:57 AM
739 Views
Agreed, but I think there's a chance we'll learn Demi's identity as part of the climax of ToM. *NM*
- 04/07/2010 02:54:36 AM
334 Views
Demandred most likely doesn't have a secret identity... more important are his plans and proxies
- 05/07/2010 07:46:01 AM
816 Views
Re: Demandred most likely doesn't have a secret identity... more important are his plans and proxies
- 05/07/2010 04:27:44 PM
929 Views
Completely agree on the Egwene-Logain alliance...
- 05/07/2010 08:17:41 PM
604 Views
Re: Completely agree on the Egwene-Logain alliance...
- 05/07/2010 11:05:51 PM
1155 Views
Re: Completely agree on the Egwene-Logain alliance...
- 13/07/2010 05:57:59 AM
1185 Views
It all depends on who actually killed Asmodean
- 05/07/2010 07:51:59 AM
883 Views
If we don't find out I'm going to send an e-mail saying "FUCK YOU" to all of them.
- 05/07/2010 03:42:39 PM
670 Views
I expect Rand to die at the end. Huge Cliffhanger.
- 04/07/2010 02:25:29 PM
847 Views