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Re: Chipping in... fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 05/07/2010 09:16:51 AM

I assume that, during the nightmare, you do believe it's real. Again, I can't speak with any certainty, because I don't really remember any dream from after I was six, but I assume that the fear you felt was lingering from while you were dreaming, at which point you did believe it was real. Even though you now know that it wasn't, the fear lingers on from when you didn't.

Actually, no. I'm usually lucid in those dreams that I remember, so I'm fully aware of the fact that this is a dream. This is hardly true of everyone, but a lot of people report a surreal feeling when they dream.

Further, even if you believe that emotions are felt only if you believed the dream was real, my point about how you feel emotions while watching movies or reading books still stands.

Just because the Novice comes out crying doesn't mean she believes what she saw was real. Take Egwene's third test. She was certainly far more aware than is usual in the arches, yet she comes out deeply pissed that she had to leave Rand again. Though she knew the events weren't real, she felt very strong emotions about them.

Likewise, my argument was that the reason the girls are sobbing in their rooms together after the test indicates that they did believe it was real during the test.

But one doesn't follow the other. People feel emotions for lots of fake things. Also, take what are called "Dreams of absent-minded transgressions". These are documented and well studied examples of where a person dreams of something they want to prevent themselves from doing while awake. There are theories that these help overcome addictions. Not only does the person feel immediate guilt upon waking up, but what they feel from it drives them to alter conscious behavior. Which proves quite conclusively that believing in a dream has nothing to do with feeling emotions related to what you dream.

The opposite situation would be, for example, a haunted house. I've only ever seen one person afraid in a haunted house - and that was because there were spiderwebs and she was arachnophobic. You hear a lot of people scream, and see them jump, but that's not fear, that's surprise. You're already on edge because you know people are going to jump at you in tiny hallways where you can't clearly see what's going on, so when they do, you're already primed to react, and you do react. That's what they call a 'jump-scare', but it's not fear. People aren't afraid because they know it's fake. Only the surprise is real.

But that's an unfair example, at least in comparison to dreams. You don't enter a dream knowing its going to be fake. You figure it out as you go along. Things don't make sense, and hey presto, you know its a dream and start having fun.
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I think the Amayar are the stupidest people ever - 30/06/2010 08:52:45 PM 2087 Views
It's the Jones Town massacre - 30/06/2010 09:33:42 PM 781 Views
Re: It's the Jones Town massacre - 03/07/2010 09:27:35 AM 782 Views
yeah, I despise fanatics of any type - 30/06/2010 09:44:08 PM 925 Views
Can't agree with all of those. - 30/06/2010 10:58:25 PM 886 Views
Yeah, I disagree too... - 01/07/2010 02:28:13 AM 870 Views
Re: Yeah, I disagree too... - 01/07/2010 03:20:30 AM 696 Views
I'm not sure. - 01/07/2010 03:45:44 AM 793 Views
Difficult to say. - 01/07/2010 05:09:46 AM 753 Views
Curse you, I had to go look up Nynaeve's Testing. - 01/07/2010 06:20:06 PM 796 Views
Nope, still can't agree. - 01/07/2010 06:40:25 PM 697 Views
I'm not going to argue that it's a good test - 01/07/2010 08:51:31 PM 645 Views
Re: I'm not going to argue that it's a good test - 01/07/2010 10:26:24 PM 730 Views
IMO, they do. - 02/07/2010 12:22:41 AM 695 Views
Okay different angle, - 02/07/2010 12:27:57 AM 590 Views
Re: Okay different angle, - 03/07/2010 08:29:09 PM 698 Views
Re: Okay different angle, - 03/07/2010 09:28:20 PM 590 Views
You really don't remember your dreams very often? - 03/07/2010 11:41:57 PM 684 Views
Haven't since I was a wee little kid. - 04/07/2010 12:54:11 AM 786 Views
Re: Haven't since I was a wee little kid. - 05/07/2010 06:02:24 AM 593 Views
- 05/07/2010 06:59:09 AM 638 Views
Chipping in... - 04/07/2010 01:11:26 AM 681 Views
Re: Chipping in... - 04/07/2010 02:44:21 AM 792 Views
Re: Chipping in... - 05/07/2010 09:16:51 AM 792 Views
You may be right. - 05/07/2010 05:53:21 PM 684 Views
Fair enough - 01/07/2010 08:53:05 AM 887 Views
Owyn helped his village? - 01/07/2010 11:23:37 AM 710 Views
Yeah - 01/07/2010 12:31:03 PM 750 Views
Easier than you think - 01/07/2010 12:42:39 PM 644 Views
Yes, I suppose they could. - 01/07/2010 06:16:38 PM 749 Views
Human beings have a pretty large capacity for "stupid" behavior - 30/06/2010 09:47:27 PM 705 Views
I'm certain that RJ based it off of something in real life - 30/06/2010 10:30:06 PM 698 Views
Re: I'm certain that RJ based it off of something in real life - 01/07/2010 01:39:50 AM 804 Views
and those crazy comet people in San Diego in the late 90's too! - 01/07/2010 03:49:59 PM 697 Views
Perhaps. - 30/06/2010 10:23:42 PM 708 Views
IMO that makes them even worse! - 30/06/2010 10:33:03 PM 658 Views
Considering that their system of belief... - 30/06/2010 11:55:12 PM 636 Views
But they could have played a part Singing, just like the Tinkers to which they're related may do *NM* - 01/07/2010 09:08:46 AM 362 Views
Because their feeble ability to sing to crops would really come in handy. - 01/07/2010 05:43:03 PM 798 Views
There are other SOngs than seed-singing. - 01/07/2010 06:26:54 PM 696 Views
Even if there are. They've been lost. And humanity has lost that Talent. - 01/07/2010 10:28:30 PM 574 Views
Only second-hand. - 01/07/2010 10:49:58 PM 848 Views
the Tinkers will at least make themselves useful as we saw in the BoEF - 01/07/2010 03:49:08 PM 649 Views
The Tinkers are also on the mainland... - 01/07/2010 05:36:40 PM 566 Views
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Take it from a lazy person's PoV: - 01/07/2010 10:51:07 AM 739 Views
LOL *NM* - 01/07/2010 03:53:31 PM 307 Views
You know... - 01/07/2010 06:42:41 PM 671 Views
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Indeed - 01/07/2010 10:37:03 PM 607 Views
None of the Forsaken will pay for their crimes? - 01/07/2010 10:54:30 PM 634 Views
Re: None of the Forsaken will pay for their crimes? - 02/07/2010 12:01:35 AM 586 Views
Well, yes, but that's only temporary . - 02/07/2010 12:27:07 AM 751 Views
From my perspective, that is meaningless. - 01/07/2010 10:52:22 PM 570 Views
Given how often Prophecies are right in that world... - 01/07/2010 02:33:21 AM 644 Views
They should work to ensure there's a place to be reborn in. - 01/07/2010 08:10:46 PM 563 Views
Yeah, pretty crazy - 01/07/2010 01:17:33 PM 655 Views
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Presumably, - 01/07/2010 06:45:02 PM 684 Views
Clear something up for me. - 01/07/2010 06:33:07 PM 636 Views
They aren't. - 01/07/2010 10:35:38 PM 581 Views
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The Amayar suck, but people believe crazy things - 01/07/2010 09:22:45 PM 826 Views

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