Semirhage threw the entire Seanchan empire into chaos
Graendal did for both Arad Domon and Shara
Ishamael has a list of evil deeds that goes on and on ... including founding the DFs and BA, as well as setting up the Seanchan return
Sammael and Demandred are like Lanfear IMO, neither of them has accomplished much that we know of.
Lanfear did what exactly? A list of "almosts".
Graendal did for both Arad Domon and Shara
Ishamael has a list of evil deeds that goes on and on ... including founding the DFs and BA, as well as setting up the Seanchan return
Sammael and Demandred are like Lanfear IMO, neither of them has accomplished much that we know of.
Lanfear did what exactly? A list of "almosts".
Of all the Forsaken, only Graendal can potentially claim to have done something. Ishamael's deeds have all been unravelled in less than three years, most recently by Egwene who decapitated the BA in one fell swoop.
You keep coming back to this as something you can't judge Forsaken prowess on, yet all the other top dog managed to serve humanity and society enough to earn the 3rd name.
Of course I come back to it, because it's the worst point ever. It's like saying which Nazi generals were the best based on their charity before WW2.
I also find it interesting that she gave herself the name Lanfear when the others were all given scornful names by the rest of the world. Names they embraced, but were given because of the atrocities they were committing. Meanwhile whiny little Mierin picks her own out!
I really don't see how this is a point against her. Personally if someone called me 'Betrayer of Hope' I'd tell them to piss off and rename myself Zeus. LOL
She pulled a few Freddy Kruger dream kills out of her ass and made the ordinary folk panic, nothing particularly grand (in terms of FS deeds) in that. Sure she was hip deep in atrocity ... but the BWB is pretty damn vague and most of the FS "bios" read very similarly.
Which is exactly why you can't say that Lanfear is a lesser Forsaken. What we know of the War of Power is scanty and murky, with only a few details.
It also says she "claimed TAR" ... that's like me saying "I'm the ruler of the Sun, but you can all still benefit from it without any repercussions" ... fact is Moghedien was more skilled in TAR, and we saw Ishamael do more with TAR over the books that Lanfear.
I don't deny that Lanfear isn't the best in TAR, but she claimed it as her own. I really don't see once again how this is relevant.
So? Graendal at least accomplished other things while taking her pleasures. Lanfear failed at everything we saw her attempt!
Depends how you look at it.
Lanfear accomplished nothing in the series. Every plot she was involved in failed or blew up in her face! She's kind of like a combination of Mesaana and Moghedien ... big talk, but winds up getting tangled in her own webs.
Dude, no Forsaken achieved anything (except perhaps Graendal). They're all toast.
Yet all the other FS use TAR pretty consistently and she never did more than make a side comment about "making free use of my realm". RJ making Moghedien more skilled in TAR and showing Ishamael use it more extensively than Lanfear would be like us finding out that Mesaana is actually better at compulsion than Graendal and Aran'gar more sadistic than Semrihage. I think it's unfortunate actually, RJ could have done much more with her.
Which is exactly what RJ did do. He showed that Moghedien could be as cruel as Semirhage in her handling of Liandrin, and he showed that Rahvin was very proficient at Compulsion.
Really? Then how did Graendal nail her in about 1 minute? I agree, and have said as much, that Lanfear was personally very formidable. We saw any number of times that she was impressive as an enemy 1-1 ... I just don't think RJ developed her outside of being AN UNSTOPPABLE JUGGERNAUT of OP Strength. I'm unimpressed with that.
Do you mean when Graendal compelled she and Moghedien? They were told not to attack Graendal. They just stood there waiting for SH.
Wheel of Time board admin
Fan of Lanfear
Fan of Lanfear
Forsaken translations
17/06/2010 09:16:36 AM
- 2192 Views
Yeah...
17/06/2010 09:31:15 AM
- 1482 Views
Semirhage is named as "The Lady of Pain" in KoD, by Rand...
17/06/2010 11:14:56 AM
- 1812 Views
Do Semirhage & Bel'al actually mean those things or are they other nicknames?
17/06/2010 11:38:18 AM
- 1226 Views
Nice ideas!
17/06/2010 02:10:43 PM
- 1285 Views
The beauty of a re-read is that there are so many little gems I'd forgotten
17/06/2010 02:48:19 PM
- 1065 Views
Re: The beauty of a re-read is that there are so many little gems I'd forgotten
17/06/2010 04:43:48 PM
- 1185 Views
Gai'shain = those sworn to peace in battle
17/06/2010 09:22:02 PM
- 1108 Views
Gaidin = Brother to Battle ... which is what I think the OP meant to use
17/06/2010 09:32:20 PM
- 1058 Views
I always thought Lanfear probably translated to something closer to a Moon translation
17/06/2010 02:43:04 PM
- 1337 Views
it's the other way around...
17/06/2010 02:58:33 PM
- 1113 Views
good point
17/06/2010 03:13:17 PM
- 1106 Views
Re: good point
17/06/2010 04:05:50 PM
- 1168 Views
Not to mention she STILL hasn't earned a 3rd (or in 4th) name
17/06/2010 04:16:57 PM
- 1143 Views
What about Cyndane
17/06/2010 04:48:03 PM
- 1033 Views
It must be her favorite one, since it's the only one she actually earned *NM*
17/06/2010 05:43:41 PM
- 577 Views
Well she earned Mierin *NM*
17/06/2010 08:27:05 PM
- 730 Views
how so? I figured mom and dad gave that one too her *NM*
17/06/2010 08:36:24 PM
- 608 Views
she earned it by being born... ha! gotcha *NM*
17/06/2010 08:39:10 PM
- 569 Views
HA! But technically I think her mother earned that *NM*
17/06/2010 08:58:30 PM
- 498 Views
Re: good point
17/06/2010 04:47:01 PM
- 1156 Views
Again, a self-proclaimed ownership aimed at making her seem more impressive
17/06/2010 05:55:12 PM
- 1062 Views
I disagree
17/06/2010 06:20:08 PM
- 1161 Views
Personally I think that order was off the cuff
17/06/2010 08:55:28 PM
- 1278 Views
Re: Personally I think that order was off the cuff
17/06/2010 09:02:06 PM
- 1242 Views
Disagree
17/06/2010 09:28:51 PM
- 1192 Views
Re: Disagree
17/06/2010 09:41:23 PM
- 1134 Views
I'm not being very clear
17/06/2010 10:14:10 PM
- 1137 Views
Re: I'm not being very clear
18/06/2010 08:06:56 AM
- 3496 Views
Re: I'm not being very clear
18/06/2010 03:33:12 PM
- 1143 Views
Re: I'm not being very clear
18/06/2010 04:35:12 PM
- 1001 Views
The point isn't if Lanfear has the skill, it's that it was poorly shown.
18/06/2010 05:31:11 PM
- 1118 Views
The statement makes clear that those 6 were all quite impressive
17/06/2010 10:51:49 PM
- 959 Views
I don't see that bearing out in the text at all
17/06/2010 10:57:36 PM
- 1167 Views
Like Etzel I don't agree
17/06/2010 08:30:37 PM
- 1031 Views
I think she's a weak villain
17/06/2010 08:58:01 PM
- 1001 Views
Re: I think she's a weak villain
17/06/2010 09:03:47 PM
- 1084 Views
and slaughter the Seanchan empress on her own throne thowing the empire into chaos
17/06/2010 09:30:27 PM
- 1095 Views
Semirhage has done more than anyone since Ishy destroyed the Ten Nations
18/06/2010 02:06:30 AM
- 1118 Views
Regarding "Demandred" ...
17/06/2010 04:51:43 PM
- 1112 Views
I always thought it was a coincidence
17/06/2010 08:32:39 PM
- 1193 Views
Lan/Lanfear isn't a coincidence...
18/06/2010 12:19:58 AM
- 1046 Views
Re: Lan/Lanfear isn't a coincidence...
20/06/2010 07:01:55 PM
- 1206 Views
Perhaps Lan-fear meaning Night-Daughter would make more sense
17/06/2010 06:00:35 PM
- 1093 Views
Re: Perhaps Lan-fear meaning Night-Daughter would make more sense
18/06/2010 04:23:38 PM
- 1319 Views
And Dragon translations...
17/06/2010 10:53:02 PM
- 1209 Views
Re: And Dragon translations...
17/06/2010 11:01:25 PM
- 1089 Views
Why would they call themselves "Spears of the fictional creature"?
18/06/2010 12:29:49 AM
- 1010 Views
It was meant as a joke, but really it could be some generic term rather than meaning
18/06/2010 06:00:36 AM
- 1050 Views
Except that they don't know what a 'Dragon' is, except as it relates to Lews Therin/Rand
18/06/2010 05:11:30 PM
- 1047 Views
like I said, I was just making a joke of it ... you are quite right with "Rand's Spears"
18/06/2010 05:32:42 PM
- 921 Views
But of course the NT word for Dragon isn't Dragon
18/06/2010 05:45:34 PM
- 1285 Views
If "aman" is the Old Tongue name for Dragon, maybe "DEMANdred" contains a reference to Dragon too...
20/06/2010 08:13:35 PM
- 1315 Views
"Dragon Wannabe" *NM*
20/06/2010 09:23:09 PM
- 451 Views
Lizard? *NM*
20/06/2010 10:04:21 PM
- 616 Views
"Scaled Worm"... though I doubt he'd take that name up in pride . *NM*
22/06/2010 01:23:03 AM
- 547 Views
It's probably too much to attempt to guess at the meanings of words...
17/06/2010 10:58:06 PM
- 856 Views