Katarine is asking why two of us now. She makes no comment at all about later.
Katerine never once said only one was necessary. She just complained about having to be part of it. Silviana's comment is crystal clear that she thinks Katerine is simply complaining. The first words out of her mouth are "Because I said so" ... something a mother would say to a child who was being a brat. "Why do I have to make my bed" ... "Because I said so"
Now, you can argue that she and Silviana both knew about the exact effects of Forkroot and how long it would last, so they never made a mention of it in their discussion of shielding Egwene.
Of course they did, that's the whole point of giving it to her in the first place! The Shield being held all night is Silviana's way of saying "I'm watching you because I think you are tricky".
But Egwene herself did not find it odd at all. Given that in the carriage, she felt she could get hold of enough saidar to defeat five Aes Sedai, either she doesn't know how much the Forkroot is affecting her, or the dose was small enough that it was wearing out enough for her to channel quite strongly. Either way, she would have been a little baffled that people assumed Barasine could hold her (if, as you say, that is not possible).
She said if she acted fast enough she may have a chance to win, that is not a comment about how much saidar she could hold, it's a comment on she may have a chance if she caught them by surprise.
KoD
Prologue
Abruptly it came to her that she was not shielded. Muddled she might be, but that made no sense at all. They could feel her strength, as she could theirs, and while none was weak, she thought she could overcome all five if she were quick enough.
A few seconds later they start discussing all the Forkroot in her system and wonder if she'll even be able to walk on her own. It's several more minutes before they even bother shielding her .. so of course they know exactly what is necessary. It's heavily implied in this scene that AS have been experimenting with the effects of Forkroot since Pritalle claims to have given Egwene the exact dose necessary. Clearly they are aware of when Egwene will need either more sisters to hold the shield, or more Forkroot.
Well, here's another quote that supports what I'm saying:
The glow of saidar surrounded Silviana, and she took over the shield smoothly, without giving any opening when Egwene might have embraced the Power herself. She was certain that she could, now.
Except that Silviana was far from weak; there was no hope she could break the woman’s shield.
By Egwene's own statement here, Forkroot is no longer an issue. She can embrace the power, and that is that, as far as she is concerned. Maybe she doesn't know she's be able to channel less than full strength, or it has indeed worn off enough that she can.
Point is, even after dismissing the effect of Forkroot, she says Silviana is too strong for Egwene to break her shield. That's the end of the argument, as far as I'm concerned.
The glow of saidar surrounded Silviana, and she took over the shield smoothly, without giving any opening when Egwene might have embraced the Power herself. She was certain that she could, now.
Except that Silviana was far from weak; there was no hope she could break the woman’s shield.
By Egwene's own statement here, Forkroot is no longer an issue. She can embrace the power, and that is that, as far as she is concerned. Maybe she doesn't know she's be able to channel less than full strength, or it has indeed worn off enough that she can.
Point is, even after dismissing the effect of Forkroot, she says Silviana is too strong for Egwene to break her shield. That's the end of the argument, as far as I'm concerned.
You keep trotting out this quote like it supports your thought. All it tells anyone is that Egwene is suffering from Forkroot still and would have no chance of breaking Silviana's shield in that moment. Egwene has realized by now that Channeling to any effect at that point is mostly beyond her. Not to mention we spend the rest of the next two books hearing about how the ability comes back gradually. Obviously Egwene is nowhere close to her normal strength in this scene. Just like when the Seanchan attack and she has to link with Nicola and others ... that was hours after her last dose and she could still barely Channel at all.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
Several good MAFOs from Dragonmount
10/06/2010 07:07:55 PM
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Maria's answer to question 20 is ground-breaking!
10/06/2010 07:36:40 PM
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No, it merely means that the Bell Curve does not refer to absolute strength...
10/06/2010 07:42:31 PM
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See the question again man!
10/06/2010 07:48:57 PM
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That contradicts your assertion that Moiraine is stronger than the average woman...
10/06/2010 07:50:11 PM
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I need to re-evaluate nothing!
10/06/2010 07:46:20 PM
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Think logically for a moment...
10/06/2010 07:49:10 PM
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Who said Egwene is twice as strong as Moiraine?
10/06/2010 07:52:27 PM
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Aviendha did in FoH...
10/06/2010 07:54:32 PM
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Nope!
10/06/2010 07:55:55 PM
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Your quotes are faulty
10/06/2010 07:57:18 PM
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In what sense though?
10/06/2010 07:59:00 PM
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Forkroot
10/06/2010 08:04:50 PM
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Again... later that night?
10/06/2010 08:05:39 PM
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What do you mean?
10/06/2010 08:07:24 PM
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See below...
10/06/2010 08:11:24 PM
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Re: See below...
10/06/2010 08:12:34 PM
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I just did.
10/06/2010 08:16:09 PM
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Well then we disagree
10/06/2010 08:18:10 PM
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BUT WHAT ABOUT LATER IN THE NIGHT!
10/06/2010 08:20:21 PM
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Ah, you mean later later ...
10/06/2010 08:29:59 PM
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Forkroot wears off, you know?
10/06/2010 08:45:33 PM
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Yes I know
10/06/2010 09:05:29 PM
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I've explained it before in this thread...
10/06/2010 09:17:10 PM
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Re: I've explained it before in this thread...
10/06/2010 09:37:39 PM
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Re: I've explained it before in this thread...
10/06/2010 09:51:40 PM
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Re: I've explained it before in this thread...
10/06/2010 10:05:37 PM
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Are you sure you're feeling fine?
10/06/2010 10:18:44 PM
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RJ writes that Amys cannot hold Egwene. BS writes that Barasene can. Who are you gonna believe?
10/06/2010 08:31:35 PM
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It wasn't BS... both were RJ!
10/06/2010 08:41:54 PM
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In that case, there is no problem...
10/06/2010 08:45:05 PM
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But that isn't what the text says...
10/06/2010 08:57:42 PM
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How can Egwene be strong enough to overcome Katerine and Silviana together then?
10/06/2010 09:07:36 PM
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Yeah, both were RJ
10/06/2010 08:49:13 PM
- 950 Views
Yeah yeah... RJ lied, Maria lied. Only you make sense. I'm finished with this debate.
10/06/2010 08:59:06 PM
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10/06/2010 09:07:52 PM
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Really?
10/06/2010 09:29:22 PM
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Re: Really?
10/06/2010 09:39:21 PM
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Here's what is clear:
10/06/2010 09:02:41 PM
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IMO it's easy to disprove
10/06/2010 09:22:23 PM
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Dude...
10/06/2010 09:27:34 PM
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At least we agree on one thing
10/06/2010 09:29:14 PM
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yet 4 women can still hold Rand in LoC ... he can't break the Shield until it's down to 3
13/06/2010 12:47:43 PM
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Have to agree with Sidious on this point
11/06/2010 02:49:58 AM
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The rate forkroot wears off?
16/06/2010 12:36:38 PM
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You missed that she isn't being given Forkroot at night at all!
16/06/2010 04:47:59 PM
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Maria's other answer adresses this...
10/06/2010 08:14:54 PM
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Then one Aes Sedai cannot shield her. But one did.
10/06/2010 08:16:41 PM
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You can be much weaker than someone, and hold them shielded, if they are already cut off...
10/06/2010 08:19:15 PM
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But, if you are much stronger, you can break that shield...
10/06/2010 08:22:25 PM
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Easy...
10/06/2010 08:24:59 PM
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What has that got to do with it?
10/06/2010 08:32:56 PM
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Amys is not LESS than half of Egwene's strength. You cannot hold someone if you are LESS than half..
10/06/2010 08:47:41 PM
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Amys is as strong as Moiraine, at the most one level lower. Barasine is weaker than Katarine, who...
10/06/2010 09:00:26 PM
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I can agree with that.
10/06/2010 09:09:07 PM
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...
10/06/2010 09:12:21 PM
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Agreed, but...
10/06/2010 09:13:59 PM
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Re: Agreed, but...
10/06/2010 09:16:30 PM
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Good point...
10/06/2010 09:18:53 PM
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Or, you know, you can have the grace to question your antiquated strength list...
10/06/2010 09:22:51 PM
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I'd be perfectly happy to adjust my list if it made sense
10/06/2010 09:32:35 PM
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Uhhh?
10/06/2010 09:41:59 PM
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Re: Uhhh?
10/06/2010 09:48:58 PM
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DUDE!
10/06/2010 09:58:59 PM
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Rand seems to shield Egwene and Elayne TOGETHER, pretty easily...
10/06/2010 09:54:03 PM
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That's fairly simple, actually...
10/06/2010 10:08:53 PM
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Nope. Rand was also cut off from the Source when he broke a shield held by 3 Aes Sedai...
10/06/2010 11:18:41 PM
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Because that channeler is much stronger? I'm not getting your confusion here. *NM*
10/06/2010 11:27:31 PM
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Your Aes Sedai are close to the average woman in strength, right...
10/06/2010 11:42:01 PM
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No, here's the quote: I hate having to pull out my books with their yellowed pages...
10/06/2010 08:01:54 PM
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Why would she need surprise against two? That was against five of them...
10/06/2010 08:04:57 PM
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Very poor evidence
10/06/2010 08:11:26 PM
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no she said Egwene is stronger than Amys and Melaine combined
11/06/2010 12:46:29 AM
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The actual quote says Amys and Melaine combined...
11/06/2010 12:25:07 PM
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Here's the problem with that...
11/06/2010 12:42:41 PM
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I think you are misreading her.
10/06/2010 07:47:06 PM
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Please explain what you mean by "channeler" and "power" distribution. *NM*
10/06/2010 09:23:36 PM
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Re: Please explain what you mean by "channeler" and "power" distribution.
10/06/2010 10:11:23 PM
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Yes. You can't extrapolate a generalized macro level scale to micro level individuals.
11/06/2010 12:16:24 AM
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I don't agree
10/06/2010 07:49:41 PM
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BAH! Its infuriating how you have so many blinders... Eerily Aes Sedai of you.
10/06/2010 07:54:23 PM
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Hmm...
10/06/2010 07:55:59 PM
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Because of the question to which she responded...
10/06/2010 07:57:55 PM
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Re: Because of the question to which she responded...
10/06/2010 08:06:16 PM
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Without contradicting the latter...
10/06/2010 08:15:11 PM
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Ah well
10/06/2010 08:20:32 PM
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Great! Two of my OP strength ideas have been solidified!
10/06/2010 07:39:53 PM
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Nope...
10/06/2010 07:46:31 PM
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Who said Cadsuane was 50?
10/06/2010 07:51:14 PM
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So how can Egwene be twice as strong as Moiraine, if Moiraine is at 55?
10/06/2010 07:53:11 PM
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She cannot be because she isn't. Silviana can shield Egwene alone, for God's sake. So can Amys!
10/06/2010 07:56:26 PM
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Amys can't hold her properly
10/06/2010 07:59:47 PM
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What about later that night?
10/06/2010 08:02:16 PM
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No she didn't
16/06/2010 03:02:21 PM
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No she didn't what?
16/06/2010 04:46:05 PM
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Re: No she didn't what?
17/06/2010 06:16:16 AM
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Re: No she didn't what?
17/06/2010 06:02:57 PM
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you are arguing in a circle
17/06/2010 06:31:19 PM
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Why do you think it's a linear scale?
16/06/2010 05:25:56 AM
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That's simple...
16/06/2010 06:36:44 AM
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Re: That's simple...
16/06/2010 12:27:07 PM
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Your concept is not mathematically right. So yeah, forget discussing it.
16/06/2010 04:41:13 PM
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Dang, Cyndane isn't using Cabriana's body.
10/06/2010 08:25:20 PM
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The blue flash RAFO irritates me- I can't see how that will be relevant. The Min thing was new
10/06/2010 08:50:52 PM
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RJ already RAFOed the incident with Thom's knives/daggers before
10/06/2010 08:57:52 PM
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It isn't, unless she's implying the Creator helped him out or some other such thing
11/06/2010 12:56:49 AM
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Just to make things clear on the strength thing...
10/06/2010 09:08:02 PM
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It is possible Maria was answering the first question and ignoring the second...
10/06/2010 09:29:59 PM
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That still proves my point...
10/06/2010 09:33:10 PM
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Re: That still proves my point...
10/06/2010 09:45:39 PM
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Then why...
10/06/2010 10:00:00 PM
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Re: Then why...
10/06/2010 10:07:56 PM
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God, what stupidity!
10/06/2010 10:10:32 PM
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Re: God, what stupidity!
10/06/2010 10:16:38 PM
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It doesn't have to be 1-100.
10/06/2010 10:32:17 PM
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Re: It doesn't have to be 1-100.
10/06/2010 10:41:02 PM
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That's a mathematical impossibility...
10/06/2010 11:26:23 PM
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Just popping in. I think you're arguing over non-existent delineations.
11/06/2010 12:44:40 AM
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You know, these things always end up pissing me off.
11/06/2010 12:25:05 AM
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Re: You know, these things always end up pissing me off.
11/06/2010 03:22:53 AM
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Re: You know, these things always end up pissing me off.
11/06/2010 12:29:37 PM
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I agree
11/06/2010 01:14:36 PM
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Re: I agree
12/06/2010 03:02:32 PM
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BS didn't answer with "Read and find out"
12/06/2010 03:28:05 PM
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We were speaking about Maria giving a RAFO on the topic, not Sanderson. *NM*
13/06/2010 12:05:17 AM
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Actually she said "No"...
*NM*
13/06/2010 01:06:18 AM
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I'll rephrase then. It was about Maria saying that she considered giving a RAFO on the question.
13/06/2010 01:44:19 AM
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Eh, practically useless.
14/06/2010 11:50:06 PM
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I agree. I think she is saving the good stuff for the encyclopedia. *NM*
15/06/2010 04:17:07 PM
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Yeah. I do think she's taking advantage of these poor saps, though.
17/06/2010 03:52:33 PM
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