Questions, Comments Thoughts and Theories about tGS
Orlin_Artemi Send a noteboard - 07/09/2009 09:09:05 PM
A couple of things, right off hand.
Yes, I agree, this isn't RJ's voice -- I'm quite relieved about that, because RJ is the only one who can write like RJ. The only thing that Sanderson wrote that really stuck out (apart from the bit about Cadsuane comparing torture to artwork), was the words "alabaster spire." That was...strange, like something I'd expect from a message board role-player. Still, it doesn't change my opinion about the book - I'm very excited to read tGS, and I have high expectations for it. As far as I'm concerned, this chapter was an excellent read.
There's also something that comes immediately to mind regarding Semirhage, Cadsuane and Nynaeve, albeit a very vague something. When the Wondergirls capture one of the original thirteen Black Ajah that they were sent against (I think in Book seven, maybe Book eight), and Adeleas and Vandene are put in charge of her questioning, Robert Jordan listed a laundry list of things that they didn't do. I remember thinking that the restrictions were so numerous that they couldn't possibly get any information out of her, but she became more compliant each and every day. Whatever it was, I guess it was well too far beneath Semirhage.
Still, does anybody have that quote from PoD? About the method for interrogation used by Aes Sedai to get compliance out of prisoners during interrogation?
Speaking of Semirhage, I can't get over the idea that she must have deliberately placed herself in Rand's hands. The 13th Depository had a blog about the tactics of the forsaken who'd gone against Rand, and one of Dom's blogs discussed the ease of her capture and how absolutely horrible her attack against Rand was launched. I can't help but think, "it was all part of the plan." The first thing she does is get into Rand's head - and expose his dirty little secret about LTT. Who's to say she didn't plan on getting captured in order to put herself into a more strategically sound position? Remember, she's plotting with Demandred AND Mesaana.
I think that the blurring of Rand's vision is relevant to the title of the Chapter. I think that Rand's vision is blurry because tears are welling up inside of him and are barely being held at bay (did anyone else notice that the statement about his vision was described just after he was thinking about his lost hand?) I would like to think that Cadsuane's "lesson" may be that no man is made of steel - but that's a tough statement to back, and I haven't reread enough to support it.
Final thoughts? Let's see. I believe that the references to "the box" and Lord of Chaos were deliberate. Sanderson is reminding us about an important lesson that Rand learned the hard way. Everytime he was beat by Galina and her cronies, he reminded himself: "This is what comes of trusting Aes Sedai." While Rand has made serious concessions for Cadsuane, Nynaeve, and Elayne, thinking of Egwene as the Amyrlin Seat is very much like thinking of Egwene as Siuan Sanche - a woman who made it her life's work to tie strings to him. The Amyrlin is Aes Sedai to her core, and Rand has suffered a great deal at Aes Sedai hands.
This statement could also have been made because Rand fears that Egwene, being Aes Sedai to her core, would have Semirhage summarily tried, stilled and executed. I see no way for him to have been aware of Moghedien's previous capture (nor the technique that was used for HER interrogation). It could have been made strictly to throw the others off, with the intention of preventing this outcome.
It's also worth noting that we haven't read the prologue. For all we know, Egwene has confronted Rand (likely through Tel'aran'rhiod) before the chapter begins. Unlikely (since Rand shields his dreams), but not entirely impossible. Do you guys really think Egwene would hesitate to break that ward if she believed she could? For that matter, does anyone believe she's ever given up on it entirely?
Ironically enough, Egwene's anger at Rand al'Thor for compulsing the Aes Sedai who follow Elaida brings to light one of Elaida's foretellings, and a very straightforward interpretation.
"The White Tower will be whole again, except for the remnants cast out and scorned, whole and stronger than ever. Rand al'Thor will face the Amyrlin Seat and know her anger. The Black Tower will be rent in blood and fire, and sisters will walk its grounds. This, I foretell!"
-A Crown of Swords, page 18
Elaida do Ahvriny a'Roihan
The only uncertainty, in my opinion, lies in the "rent in fire and blood" line, concerning the Black Tower. That may be a reference to the battle hardened students who wear the black, or an allusion to an upcoming battle (perhaps between Taim and Logain, or Taim and Rand - who can say?) Everything else clearly states that Egwene will unite the Tower, Rand will know her anger, Elaida and her "remnants" will be cast out and scorned, and Aes Sedai (who are bonded to the Asha'man) will walk th grounds of the Black Tower. Or, it could be referring to the Aes Sedai who came to bond the Asha'man in the first place? Either way, a very neatly unfolded prophecy.
Thanks!
Yes, I agree, this isn't RJ's voice -- I'm quite relieved about that, because RJ is the only one who can write like RJ. The only thing that Sanderson wrote that really stuck out (apart from the bit about Cadsuane comparing torture to artwork), was the words "alabaster spire." That was...strange, like something I'd expect from a message board role-player. Still, it doesn't change my opinion about the book - I'm very excited to read tGS, and I have high expectations for it. As far as I'm concerned, this chapter was an excellent read.
There's also something that comes immediately to mind regarding Semirhage, Cadsuane and Nynaeve, albeit a very vague something. When the Wondergirls capture one of the original thirteen Black Ajah that they were sent against (I think in Book seven, maybe Book eight), and Adeleas and Vandene are put in charge of her questioning, Robert Jordan listed a laundry list of things that they didn't do. I remember thinking that the restrictions were so numerous that they couldn't possibly get any information out of her, but she became more compliant each and every day. Whatever it was, I guess it was well too far beneath Semirhage.
Still, does anybody have that quote from PoD? About the method for interrogation used by Aes Sedai to get compliance out of prisoners during interrogation?
Speaking of Semirhage, I can't get over the idea that she must have deliberately placed herself in Rand's hands. The 13th Depository had a blog about the tactics of the forsaken who'd gone against Rand, and one of Dom's blogs discussed the ease of her capture and how absolutely horrible her attack against Rand was launched. I can't help but think, "it was all part of the plan." The first thing she does is get into Rand's head - and expose his dirty little secret about LTT. Who's to say she didn't plan on getting captured in order to put herself into a more strategically sound position? Remember, she's plotting with Demandred AND Mesaana.
I think that the blurring of Rand's vision is relevant to the title of the Chapter. I think that Rand's vision is blurry because tears are welling up inside of him and are barely being held at bay (did anyone else notice that the statement about his vision was described just after he was thinking about his lost hand?) I would like to think that Cadsuane's "lesson" may be that no man is made of steel - but that's a tough statement to back, and I haven't reread enough to support it.
Final thoughts? Let's see. I believe that the references to "the box" and Lord of Chaos were deliberate. Sanderson is reminding us about an important lesson that Rand learned the hard way. Everytime he was beat by Galina and her cronies, he reminded himself: "This is what comes of trusting Aes Sedai." While Rand has made serious concessions for Cadsuane, Nynaeve, and Elayne, thinking of Egwene as the Amyrlin Seat is very much like thinking of Egwene as Siuan Sanche - a woman who made it her life's work to tie strings to him. The Amyrlin is Aes Sedai to her core, and Rand has suffered a great deal at Aes Sedai hands.
This statement could also have been made because Rand fears that Egwene, being Aes Sedai to her core, would have Semirhage summarily tried, stilled and executed. I see no way for him to have been aware of Moghedien's previous capture (nor the technique that was used for HER interrogation). It could have been made strictly to throw the others off, with the intention of preventing this outcome.
It's also worth noting that we haven't read the prologue. For all we know, Egwene has confronted Rand (likely through Tel'aran'rhiod) before the chapter begins. Unlikely (since Rand shields his dreams), but not entirely impossible. Do you guys really think Egwene would hesitate to break that ward if she believed she could? For that matter, does anyone believe she's ever given up on it entirely?
Ironically enough, Egwene's anger at Rand al'Thor for compulsing the Aes Sedai who follow Elaida brings to light one of Elaida's foretellings, and a very straightforward interpretation.
"The White Tower will be whole again, except for the remnants cast out and scorned, whole and stronger than ever. Rand al'Thor will face the Amyrlin Seat and know her anger. The Black Tower will be rent in blood and fire, and sisters will walk its grounds. This, I foretell!"
-A Crown of Swords, page 18
Elaida do Ahvriny a'Roihan
The only uncertainty, in my opinion, lies in the "rent in fire and blood" line, concerning the Black Tower. That may be a reference to the battle hardened students who wear the black, or an allusion to an upcoming battle (perhaps between Taim and Logain, or Taim and Rand - who can say?) Everything else clearly states that Egwene will unite the Tower, Rand will know her anger, Elaida and her "remnants" will be cast out and scorned, and Aes Sedai (who are bonded to the Asha'man) will walk th grounds of the Black Tower. Or, it could be referring to the Aes Sedai who came to bond the Asha'man in the first place? Either way, a very neatly unfolded prophecy.
Thanks!
This message last edited by Orlin_Artemi on 12/09/2009 at 02:16:50 PM
Your thoughts on TGS - Chapter 1
05/09/2009 05:23:47 PM
- 5930 Views
For all of those whining about it not sounding like RJ:
05/09/2009 05:47:07 PM
- 1852 Views
You're forgetting one thing.
06/09/2009 12:13:03 AM
- 1807 Views
And if he were to off Egwene? What would your opinion be? *NM*
07/09/2009 05:38:36 AM
- 897 Views
He dislikes Sanderson's prose. Plot content is irrelevant here. *NM*
08/09/2009 06:44:42 PM
- 995 Views
Pretty good.
05/09/2009 07:35:41 PM
- 45240 Views
Re: Pretty good.
05/09/2009 09:13:44 PM
- 1721 Views
I found it well-written, but rather uninteresting story-wise *NM*
05/09/2009 08:04:15 PM
- 996 Views
because there should totaly be massive plot development in the first chapter
05/09/2009 08:29:18 PM
- 1540 Views
I'm tired of passive story telling.
05/09/2009 08:57:13 PM
- 1497 Views
I'm tired of mindless readers
06/09/2009 01:54:14 AM
- 1587 Views
Re: I'm tired of mindless readers
06/09/2009 04:01:56 AM
- 1735 Views
I was over critical.
06/09/2009 04:56:48 AM
- 1376 Views
A real analyst or literary critic would laugh his ass off to see this...
06/09/2009 06:51:57 AM
- 1560 Views
Re: because there should totaly be massive plot development in the first chapter
06/09/2009 01:22:09 AM
- 1509 Views
A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers)
05/09/2009 09:34:44 PM
- 1626 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers)
05/09/2009 10:03:59 PM
- 1638 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers)
06/09/2009 03:18:41 AM
- 1464 Views
I think Lews Therin's comments to Rand were the most hugely significant part of the chapter.
06/09/2009 01:15:05 AM
- 1408 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers)
06/09/2009 02:52:47 AM
- 2051 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers)
06/09/2009 07:08:08 AM
- 1368 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers)
06/09/2009 10:31:20 AM
- 1805 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers)
07/09/2009 05:09:38 AM
- 1425 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers)
08/09/2009 10:19:13 PM
- 1315 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers)
10/09/2009 06:20:56 AM
- 1558 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers)
08/09/2009 11:46:44 PM
- 1478 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers)
07/09/2009 04:41:47 AM
- 1485 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers)
09/09/2009 03:48:53 PM
- 1423 Views
Good post, but I have an alternative explanation for the saidin barrier
28/09/2009 12:53:41 AM
- 1230 Views
Robert Jordon vs Brandon Sanderson
06/09/2009 12:02:13 AM
- 1437 Views
Re: Robert Jordon vs Brandon Sanderson
06/09/2009 05:12:25 PM
- 1291 Views
Re: Robert Jordon vs Brandon Sanderson
06/09/2009 07:20:45 PM
- 1291 Views
I found it...interesting --spoilers--
06/09/2009 01:33:11 AM
- 1620 Views
I liked it
06/09/2009 07:58:09 AM
- 1403 Views
Some questions...
06/09/2009 08:04:30 AM
- 1433 Views
Theory: Rand and Egwene. What is up?
06/09/2009 07:59:58 AM
- 2298 Views
A simpler answer
06/09/2009 03:04:04 PM
- 1491 Views
Really?
06/09/2009 03:38:59 PM
- 1356 Views
Look at what he has seen...
06/09/2009 11:45:44 PM
- 1295 Views
And all this happeened in the few days between the end of KoD and the beginning of tGS?
07/09/2009 12:35:29 AM
- 1345 Views
Why not? How often did he think of Egwene in A Plain Wooden Box? It might have been there already
07/09/2009 05:29:27 AM
- 1474 Views
She treated him like a pawn when she "passed" him over to Elayne way back. NM *NM*
07/09/2009 02:49:18 PM
- 887 Views
are we already at the location of the book cover?
06/09/2009 11:49:06 AM
- 1380 Views
Two Things
07/09/2009 12:25:31 AM
- 1458 Views
Questions, Comments Thoughts and Theories about tGS
07/09/2009 09:09:05 PM
- 1416 Views
My thoughts are that the main page is being crowded by too many duplicate threads
07/09/2009 10:23:41 PM
- 1386 Views
I know why Rand is mad at Egwene...read inside to find out
11/09/2009 03:15:00 AM
- 1359 Views
Ummm... the embassy's proposal was accepted, and (presumably) communicated to Egwene at the earliest *NM*
11/09/2009 04:16:31 AM
- 920 Views
Semirhage isn't scaring anyone
28/09/2009 02:32:34 PM
- 1687 Views
Indeed...
28/09/2009 03:36:55 PM
- 1303 Views
Will the Chosen pass that edict down or just not act themselves?
28/09/2009 10:29:53 PM
- 1261 Views